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Reversal E6 home Processing


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#1 Oliver Christoph Kochs

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 12:47 PM

Hi fellow filmmakers, i sucessfully dipped into the field of 16mm E6 home processing.
I just used the "bucket method" to do my first 100ft roll of Kodak 100D and i am pleased with the results. I don't care about scratches for now and I know that i can't take it to a professional quality level but i wonder if some of you collegues built something that automates the processing. Is there a chance that i can avoid rolling 100ft off the spool to dip it into the liquids?

I did buy a morse tank but it's for B/W negative only so it doesn't work with the morse. Please share any other ideas.
Thank you so much. Oliver
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#2 alexandros petin

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 02:38 PM

Hello!

I am using the lomo tank and when i am carefull with temp monitoring i get nice results(not pro of course).there are many ways to achive this.
I preheat the tank with water at the right temperature so that i can decelarate the drop of temperature of the chemicals etc.there are many articles on the web about it.

Why is the morse tank only for black and white?

I dont know what you mean automated but the lomo tank is quite like any 35mm photo film tank, except it accepts longer film, so the procedure is similar.

Keep up!its fun to experiment and try cross process for funky results.
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#3 Oliver Christoph Kochs

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 04:47 PM

Hello Alexandros,
thanx for your reply. The morse tank you have to wind at all time during processing which is annoying. There IS a difference between shaking a bucket and winding for half an hour. I tried it and i won't do it again. The film is not in the bath at all time - it's mostly wound so you have to wind a lot. It's okay for black and white though cause you can pretty much get along with developer and fixer - but not with 4 bath in E6 processing and you also have to wet during the baths. So no way!!!

I'd like to avoid rolling off the film, that goes with the Lomo tank as well. Does the Lomo tank have a 100ft winding plastic thing? I always thought it was less which is a bad thing for 16mm.

I'd love to have something like this but for me it's too complicated to built something like it. Maybe there's something inbetween the lomo tank and this processing machine - i.e. I could imagine pulling a film through different pipes with liquid using one or two motors directly from the spool.
Alexandros, i did get good results and i will stick to the subject and one day i'll try cross processing as well...
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#4 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 06:40 PM

I tend to agree that a morse tank would be difficult to use to process E6, but not impossible. I suspect the change in temperature as the chemistry on the film cools down after leaving the bath and waiting for its next shot in the bath might be the biggest problem.
That processing machine the German kid built is unbelievable. I have never heard of anything comperable to that. Its extraundinarily impressive, but personally I think it was a lot of unnecessary effort if the aim was to actually process film. I have to say that the LOMO is the best way to home process if you want professional looking results. Yes, most lomo tanks are 50' only. They can take 2 x 50' rolls of 16mm at a time. Really this is no problem if you have access to a splicer. You just cut the film in the dark on the splicer (which will cut right on a frame line). Then splice some leader to the end on the roll before threading that leader into the spiral. If you have spliced on the base side, then after processing the two halves can be re-joined and the only defect is a splice - no dropped frames or anything. Myself I use the very rare 100' lomo tanks. But most of my film prints are about 400' long, so I process my prints in 4 sections using this leader and splicer technique. It works well. If you want good results and you are thinking of building something of your own, bear in mind the expense of constructing and testing the thing and the fact that it would be very hard to get better results than a lomo. I'd say buy a lomo if you are interested in processing film.
cheers,
richard
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#5 alexandros petin

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Posted 26 May 2010 - 10:18 PM

Didnt know about the morse tank and it sounds like pain for many baths.
That processing mashine is amazing but Richard has a point.Still if i had it in my darkroom i would be very happy!

I remember a processing mashine that was in Olex Kalynychenko's old website about the lomo tanks.
here are the links, the website is not online anymore so its archived and unfortunatelly theres no picture of the mashine.it looked kind of compact,compared to the normal ones and to the one in youtube.it was for b/w only.maybe with some modification more baths could me added.i am still hunting for a 100ft lomo tank in ebay.no luck yet.

http://web.archive.o...nk/pro-base.htm 100ft version

http://web.archive.o...netank/tank.htm procesing mashine

maybe olex could give some info about this mashine.
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#6 Chris Millar

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 02:54 AM

Myself I use the very rare 100' lomo tanks. But most of my film prints are about 400' long, so I process my prints in 4 sections using this leader and splicer technique. It works well. If you want good results and you are thinking of building something of your own, bear in mind the expense of constructing and testing the thing and the fact that it would be very hard to get better results than a lomo. I'd say buy a lomo if you are interested in processing film.
cheers,
richard


You use the Lomo 100' for E6 ? interesting ... Friends here in NZ send film your way - perhaps I should do it for them ! :lol:

I have the 100' tank also and a swag of tetenal 3 bath kits and the Kodak full kit yet to be opened - mostly working with large format stuff though in a CPA2 - could probably sort something out with the tanks actually or just use the Lomo ...
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#7 Oliver Christoph Kochs

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Posted 27 May 2010 - 01:29 PM

Hello,

i just purchased a 2x15mm Lomo tank via e-bay and will try it out.
Will look out for a full 100ft tank as well from now on. Thanx for the tip.
Oliver
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#8 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 08:05 AM

I remember a processing mashine that was in Olex Kalynychenko's old website about the lomo tanks.


Yes, color reversal film can be processing at home.
This can be S8, 16 mm, 35 mm films.
LOMO UPB-1/1A tanks and E-6 3 bath chemistry set will good choose.
You can visit of my page :
https://sites.google...film-processing

You can see equipments for home film processing.

the pages :
https://sites.google...1a-spiral-tanks

Show of LOMO UPB-1, UPB-1A tanks, technology assembling of spriral for different films.

If you think about procesisng machine, E-6 processing ask of high stability temperature solution. Thta's why, the machine must have system of temperature stabilization of chemistry, system of solution replenishment.

But, i wish underline, LOMO spiral tanks very good device for begining of process film at home. Will ask low money, but, you will have verygood result.
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#9 Oliver Christoph Kochs

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 04:41 PM

Thank you, Olex, i will give the Lomo tank a try and test it well. I will later write a test for german film magazine on E6 home processing for beginners (like myself) and i can post the results here also.

Another question to you helpful guys... I also came across this unit and it seems the best processing tank so far. It is a Burke & James stainless steel tank. Has anyone ever heard of or worked with this unit?
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#10 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 28 May 2010 - 07:12 PM

Thank you, Olex, i will give the Lomo tank a try and test it well. I will later write a test for german film magazine on E6 home processing for beginners (like myself) and i can post the results here also.

Another question to you helpful guys... I also came across this unit and it seems the best processing tank so far. It is a Burke & James stainless steel tank. Has anyone ever heard of or worked with this unit?

Hey Oliver, where did you come accross that B & J tank? I have never seen such a thing. Being stainless, it MIGHT be something that could be copied at only moderate expense. It would cost a fortune to copy the excellent LOMO 100' tanks in plastic/bakelite. Do you own this B& J tank?
cheers,
richard
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#11 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 29 May 2010 - 02:51 AM

Thank you, Olex, i will give the Lomo tank a try and test it well. I will later write a test for german film magazine on E6 home processing for beginners (like myself) and i can post the results here also.

Another question to you helpful guys... I also came across and it seems the best processing tank so far. It is a Burke & James stainless steel tank. Has anyone ever heard of or worked with this unit?

If i understand correct from images of Burke & James stainless steel tank.
The tank have stainless spiral.
But, what kinds of height of spiral ?
I don't see upper disk.
I can suppose, the spiral have stripe on full height of film ( 8 mm) and you need load film between stripes.
But, the film can touch of stripe and chemisrty do not touch with emulstion constantly.

The lower and middle spiral of LOMO tank have grooving with height 1.8 mm -similar of distance between film edge and perforation.

The part of film with image do not touch of spiral and have godo contact with chemistry from two sides of film.

LOMO spiral rotate inside tank, that's why, you can turn of spiral and mix chesmitry very effective.


Any case, willbe good idea to study detailed and to test of Burke & James stainless steel tank.
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#12 Oliver Christoph Kochs

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 06:46 AM

Do you own this B& J tank?


I bought it for 200 dollars. Quite high. I need some tank to process a 100ft spool and these Lomo tanks obviously never come up on fleabay. This Burke and James is obviously for 35mm film. Size? It is 18 inches in diameter and 3 high.
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#13 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 03 June 2010 - 07:03 PM

I bought it for 200 dollars. Quite high. I need some tank to process a 100ft spool and these Lomo tanks obviously never come up on fleabay. This Burke and James is obviously for 35mm film. Size? It is 18 inches in diameter and 3 high.

Hi oliver,
I am facinated by this B & J tank. As you say the 100' lomos are hard to find. This tank looks like it would be replicatable. Did you ever load it? I can't quite tell how it works. There looks to be a winding arm. What confuses me is that the arm angles down to the centre of the spiral. As such, doesn't it run in to the film? Am I correct in assuming the tank is threaded from the inside of the spiral to the outside? The Lomo has a bottom spiral (not unlike this tank) but also has a top disc. On loading, the film is forced into the spiral track because there is no other room for the height of the film in the space between the spiral and the top disc. So is there a top disc to the spiral? If not, do you know how this tank is loaded? I would love to know more about this tank and consider the possibility of having some made.
cheers,
richard
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#14 John Salim

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 10:47 AM

For those of you who use these home developing tanks, I'd like to know how you dry your films without getting drying marks or spots.

Do you dry them on the spirals or remove them onto some drying device ?

John S :blink:
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#15 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 04 June 2010 - 06:40 PM

For those of you who use these home developing tanks, I'd like to know how you dry your films without getting drying marks or spots.

Do you dry them on the spirals or remove them onto some drying device ?

John S :blink:

Make up a rack out of plywood and dowling. A plywood disc at both ends, a central shaft of dowling (1/2" in thickness). The central shaft should protrude beyond the discs at each end to act as an axle for supporting the rack. Have say 6 pieces of thinner dowling joining the discs around the edges. These pieces are the rails that the film will touch against. Good idea to cover these in plastic tape.
The head of the wet film is pulled from the spiral and pegged to the rack. Then by rotating the rack, the wet film is gently pulled out of the processing spiral in the same way it went in. If the film is acetate based, then it will need to be slackened as it dries to avoid kinks. The film is put on the rack with the emulsion out, such that only the base side touches the rack. No spots or drying marks at all. Do this in as dust free an environment as you can manage (I have a heated room with a HEPA air filter for drying, but you really don't need this).
Air drying for 24 hours is ideal. If its just a test film or whatever you can dry with a blow dryer in a few minutes.
richard
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#16 Oliver Christoph Kochs

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 06:29 PM

I received the Burke & James tank today. Haven't used it yet. Yes, there seem to be missing parts like a middle axis and i also do not know how that winding arm is supposed to work. I will work something out...

I had used the Lomo tank for now and have processed about four 16mm films. They were all Super16 and i do get emulsion leftover on the edge. Having used enough chemistry it seems that the plastic wind that causes this?!?
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#17 Chris Millar

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Posted 08 July 2010 - 06:45 PM

They were all Super16 and i do get emulsion leftover on the edge. Having used enough chemistry it seems that the plastic wind that causes this?!?


Emulsion ?? you mean just crud perhaps ? Or an area that hasn't actually processed ?

The spiral should be on the sprocket side if I recall - makes sense anyway ...

Anyway, for what it's worth I've never had an issue with all the variations of Lomo's I've used - does it work with black and white for you ?
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#18 Olex Kalynychenko

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 01:38 AM

I received the Burke & James tank today. Haven't used it yet. Yes, there seem to be missing parts like a middle axis and i also do not know how that winding arm is supposed to work. I will work something out...

I had used the Lomo tank for now and have processed about four 16mm films. They were all Super16 and i do get emulsion leftover on the edge. Having used enough chemistry it seems that the plastic wind that causes this?!?


The "emulsion leftover on the edge " can be from touch of emulsion with end of groove a spiral.
Do you use of single 16 mm spiral assembling or two 16 mm films spiral assembling ?
( for note, I add of a few pages about assembling of LOMO tank spiral on my site ).

If you use Super 16 film, you need load film with perforation to down.
The part of film with perforation will set inside groove a spiral.

About value of chemistry.

For processing, you need solutions of :

One Super 8, 8 mm film -.............................................. 0.85 litre,

One 16 mm, DS8, 2x8 Super, D8, 2x8 film -.................... 1.0 litre,

One 35 mm film -.......................................................... 1.7 litre,

Two Super 8, 8 mm films -............................................. 1.3 litre

One Super 8 ( 8 mm ) + one 16 mm ( DS8, D8 ) films....... 1.5 litre

Two 16 mm, DS8, 2x8 Super, D8, 2x8 films .................... 1.8 litre


What kinds you turn of a spiral axis at processing ?
The matter is that, as of my experience, the procedure of turn of spiral axis ( mix of chemistry ) influence at final color balance.
I use 5 second low speed turn and 10 second waiting.

E-6 processing ask of high temperature stability.
I use a solution heating before use, to heating a tank with film inside without solution, and heating a tank with solution inside.
A some ideas show on my site.
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#19 Oliver Christoph Kochs

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 05:01 AM

Hello, Update: I have tried the Burke and James Tank for the first time. I don't have a manual for it, so i had to find out how it works. First roll was a daylight spool of Super 16mm Ektachrome 100D. The film is wound on a stand (the item pictured is not a crank) from the inside and gently pushed in the stainless steel roll. The distance between one wind is about 3 times compared to the Lomo. The films emulsion must face the center and should be pressed against the roll. The spool takes a full 100ft roll of 16mm / DS8. After the film is rolled, you have 3 steel cans that you fill the chemistry in. The rest works just like making a B&W paper print. You slightly move the spool in the liquid, keep your temperature and time etc. Wear rubber gloves.
I really like the tank. You can prepare it all in advance and that makes it a lot easier. On the first roll I had a lot of undeveloped parts of the film as i hadn't pressed the film on the side of the wind. I will next time. It also is good to gently stroke over the film to have the liquid fill the space between the steel winds and film.
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