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Shooting a serie with canon 7D


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#1 Daniel Miranda

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 08:21 PM

Hi guys, i'm from Chile, and in a few months we are going to shot a serie for a local tv channel, we were planning on shooting with the P2 with Letus35 and Zeiss 1,3: but now the production find that the could buy a canon 7D with for the price of the hire.
What's your opinion is better to do it with the P2 or is better to buy the 7D.
Greettings from Chile
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#2 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 11 June 2010 - 09:16 PM

By P2 I assume you mean an HVX-200.

This is a reasonably difficult question, because the 7D is better in every single way, except the aliasing and poor compression. You should shoot tests to make sure that you can tolerate the 7D's problems as a video camera - the heavy compression, softness, and aliasing - before you make the decision to use it. That said the HVX-200 also has its flaws - it's soft and noisy, and doesn't even aim for 1080p.

P

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#3 Jason Hinkle (RIP)

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 12:12 AM

What's your opinion is better to do it with the P2 or is better to buy the 7D.


I personally hate working with the lens adapters, they're like a black hole of time spent fiddling to keep everything in focus and not vignetting. Probably many people have them figured out better than me, though. The 7D would be good if you can deal with it's various issues. The 12 minute per shot time limit, they can overheat if you shoot for a long time requiring you to take a break. Obviously the compression and rolling shutter business as well. But if you can deal with those limitations the 7D is very easy to work with.

Edited by Jason Hinkle, 12 June 2010 - 12:13 AM.

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#4 Mathew Rudenberg

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 05:49 PM



This is a reasonably difficult question, because the 7D is better in every single way, except the aliasing and poor compression.

P


I would say there are several other issues involved in deciding on using 7D's for a show...

From my experience the 5D/7D make beautiful pictures, but are painful to work with in a professional capacity for several reasons...

1) video village - if you want to be able to have directors be able to watch monitors in HD at video village you're going to need to have an HDMI enabled onboard monitor for each camera, and and HDMI splitter (which has to be powered) to send signal to the monitors in video village as well as the on board (you could use AJA boxes to convert the HDMI to HD-SDI instead). Alternatively you could monitor in SD but that's dangerous for focus.

The hpx-170, on the other hand, has a dedicated HD-SDI out.

2) sound - with no time code or lockit boxes and no professional input for sound editorial is probably going to have to rely purely on the slate for syncing - this could be an issue depending on turn around and so forth. Also no TC = unhappy scripty.

The hpx-170, on the other hand, has TC and XLR inputs

3) Focus - how are you handling focus on your show? There are multiple approaches, the ops can pull their own which works fairly well but tends to enforce a certain 'style.' Alternatively if you're going for a more controlled look things become a little trickier. Still lenses make beautiful pictures, but are horrible for AC's - you can consider options like manually geared lenses or converting your cams to PL mounts, but these are naturally pricey.

A mini 35 rig, on the other hand, has a PL mount and rods for follow focus.

4) exposure and focus controls in camera - When I shoot digital I rely heavily on certain standard video camera functions for exposure and focus - these being zebras and peaking. These wonderful tools allow you to be able to tell if your shot is in focus and properly exposed while you're rolling. The DSLR's have substitutes for these BUT they only work when you are not rolling.

The hpx-170, on the other hand, has zebras and peaking and more...

Now, I'm not saying that mini35/hpx combo is perfect by a long shot - it is noisy, bad in low light and unwieldy for handheld. It is, on the other hand, a real video camera. The DSLR's are still cameras that happen to record video.

Personally I'm glad I'm not in your position because I would find it very difficult to choose. The 7D will make somewhat prettier pictures, but also be somewhat harder to work with.
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#5 Daniel Miranda

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Posted 15 June 2010 - 03:32 AM

Thanks for your anwsers, and sorry i didn't specify the camera model; yes when i said P2 i reffer to HVX 200, in Chile we generally call P2 to the HVX200.
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#6 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 15 June 2010 - 06:28 AM

I would say there are several other issues involved in deciding on using 7D's for a show...


Well, OK, yes, fair comment. The pictures, though...
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#7 DJ Kast

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 06:16 PM

I would say there are several other issues involved in deciding on using 7D's for a show...

From my experience the 5D/7D make beautiful pictures, but are painful to work with in a professional capacity for several reasons...

1) video village - if you want to be able to have directors be able to watch monitors in HD at video village you're going to need to have an HDMI enabled onboard monitor for each camera, and and HDMI splitter (which has to be powered) to send signal to the monitors in video village as well as the on board (you could use AJA boxes to convert the HDMI to HD-SDI instead). Alternatively you could monitor in SD but that's dangerous for focus.

The hpx-170, on the other hand, has a dedicated HD-SDI out.

2) sound - with no time code or lockit boxes and no professional input for sound editorial is probably going to have to rely purely on the slate for syncing - this could be an issue depending on turn around and so forth. Also no TC = unhappy scripty.

The hpx-170, on the other hand, has TC and XLR inputs

3) Focus - how are you handling focus on your show? There are multiple approaches, the ops can pull their own which works fairly well but tends to enforce a certain 'style.' Alternatively if you're going for a more controlled look things become a little trickier. Still lenses make beautiful pictures, but are horrible for AC's - you can consider options like manually geared lenses or converting your cams to PL mounts, but these are naturally pricey.

A mini 35 rig, on the other hand, has a PL mount and rods for follow focus.

4) exposure and focus controls in camera - When I shoot digital I rely heavily on certain standard video camera functions for exposure and focus - these being zebras and peaking. These wonderful tools allow you to be able to tell if your shot is in focus and properly exposed while you're rolling. The DSLR's have substitutes for these BUT they only work when you are not rolling.

The hpx-170, on the other hand, has zebras and peaking and more...

Now, I'm not saying that mini35/hpx combo is perfect by a long shot - it is noisy, bad in low light and unwieldy for handheld. It is, on the other hand, a real video camera. The DSLR's are still cameras that happen to record video.

Personally I'm glad I'm not in your position because I would find it very difficult to choose. The 7D will make somewhat prettier pictures, but also be somewhat harder to work with.



There is a program called "Plural Eyes" that will sync the sound captured on an external sound recording device to the video shot with HDSLR's. It matches the sound with the sound that is recorded by the camera, and is a fairly simple solution to the sync issue, but it is always best to have a slate for back up.

As far as which cam is best, the hvx isn't as pretty, but there are so many downfalls to the 5D and the 7D's. Its a shame to loose up to two stops of light with the mini 35 adapter, but you will probably get burned at somepoint or another with an HDSLR. The rolling shutter, recording limitations, moray-issues, or vertical banding are all pot holes you could easily fall into...It is a sexy image, though.
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#8 Ram Shani

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Posted 07 July 2010 - 12:38 AM

also the sound man can sand to the camera a reference sound to 1 channel

and time code to second channel
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#9 KEITH STARK

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Posted 01 November 2010 - 12:35 PM

I own both cameras( 200 and 7D) and a redrock for the Pani, and in a nutshell ....... 7D all the way.

however, for "P2", Assuming you are talking hxv200 or 170....if it's a big brother then that might be a different story.

As posted by some above, You need to have separate sound. I came to the conclusion that the sound is so bad in the pani that I record separate sound for that also.

To avoid Moir in the Canon, try to do tests shots with wardrobe and have a HDMI monitor setup when ever you can. If Moir occurs in the background, just cheat it out of focus a bit either by moving your subjects away from the background or shooting more shallow. However, you still may run into a little Moir in post.

Rolling shutter....., by not waving the camera around like an idiot, I don't have too much of an issue. I will switch to 60fps (to convert to 24 in post), if I think I may have an issue. Like if someone is walking/running in a shot with a bunch of vertical lines. Note, fast zooms also do weird stuff too.

Edited by KEITH STARK, 01 November 2010 - 12:40 PM.

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