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Double Super 8


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#1 Jacob Waltman

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 02:07 PM

Having given the search function a bit of a work out and finding most relevant posts anywhere from 3-5 years old [assuming I'm using the search function correctly], I thought I would try and see if I could get a sort of 'updated picture' on double super 8. I'm toying with the idea of converting my Bolex H8 Rx to ds8, but am not sure I can come up with enough legitimate reasons to do so. Way back when there seemed to mainly be an argument over how much bigger the frame size actually was (vs. reg 8mm), as well the lack of options for ds8 stock, etc. So for those perhaps still utilizing this format, whatever general thoughts you might have on the format or related issues at this point in time would be much appreciated...
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#2 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 11:31 PM

E 100D is readily available in DS8, and some B&W stocks here and there. I use a DS8 Canon Scoopic once and a while. Some advantages, at least over S8 (my first hand experience) would be sharper images, better registration, 10 minutes worth of film on one spool... 5 min on one side. I hear reg 8mm 100D looks pretty nice... and the Bolex H series are really nice cameras. I wouldn't mess with it unless you have someone trustworthy of such a conversion. And if the price is high, you may be better off finding a Scoopic DS8. If you like it better, you can sell the H8. Or even give super 8 a try, see how the larger cartridge frame compares to your smaller metal plate frame. You may be able to better quantify what to expect. Color reversal is the same accross all formats now.
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#3 andy oliver

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 09:25 AM

Hi, i went the ds-8 route a few years ago, as stocks of kodachrome 25 were still available long after 16mm k25 had bitten the dust. I went the canon ds-8 route at first, but i was disappointed with the lens quality. Finally purchased a bolex ds-8 with the 3 primes, k25 images via the bolex are absolutely stunning. I'm still shooting k25/40 for now. Kodak ds-8 100d looks very good through switar glass, images seem to be less saturated than cartridge based super 8 wittner 100d ( still waiting for kodak loaded 100d to come back from the lab ).
If k25/40 was still an option, i would invest in converting the bolex, but given we only have 100d or wittner 50d in the format, i would be inclined to shoot standard 8 100d or 50d.
I shoot regular/standard 8 too, R8 wittner 50 ( velvia ) looks a lot sharper than super 8 100d via the same optics despite the smaller image area.
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#4 Nicholas Rapak

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Posted 24 June 2010 - 06:45 PM

I would keep it R8 because not only can you use those stocks that John Schwind gets from Kodak, you can also get any double perfed 16mm film converted to Double 8 by Edward Nowill in the UK.
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#5 kevin jackman

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 02:51 AM

i think ill go with ds8. i think the images from 100d in it would be stunning.

andy, can you post a good quality telecine of some of your bolex ds8 work?
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#6 Jacob Waltman

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Posted 29 June 2010 - 03:42 PM

Thanks for all your help, it is much appreciated. I think I am going to just keep this Bolex as is, but if anyone happens to have a line on an existing DS8 camera please do contact me...
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#7 andy oliver

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 06:19 PM

i think ill go with ds8. i think the images from 100d in it would be stunning.

andy, can you post a good quality telecine of some of your bolex ds8 work?


Hi, looking to transfer some anamorphic super 8 100D ( cartridge based ) to digi beta in the next few weeks, at the same time, i'll add a few minutes of DS-8 K25, will post, once transferred.
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#8 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 06:40 PM

Thanks for all your help, it is much appreciated. I think I am going to just keep this Bolex as is, but if anyone happens to have a line on an existing DS8 camera please do contact me...

I have a canon DS8 in beautiful condition that I probably should sell. Cost would be US$550 including postage and a 100' roll of K40, 100' of 100d to anywhere.
email if interested:
richard@nanolab.com.au
cheers,
richard
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#9 Jacob Waltman

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 10:24 PM

Temporarily re-animating this thread, if anyone happens to have some experience with the Pathé DS8 cameras (or have one they'd be interested in selling/trading), please contact me, I have some questions I would like to ask...
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#10 andy oliver

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 09:09 AM

Temporarily re-animating this thread, if anyone happens to have some experience with the Pathé DS8 cameras (or have one they'd be interested in selling/trading), please contact me, I have some questions I would like to ask...


Only thing i've picked up on is the focussing screen/beam splitter thing, think its called a pellicule?? i've heard these deteriorate and require replacing.
Be warned, i've only recently purchased a second Bolex ds-8 and now kodak have axed 100D in the ds-8 format, so possibly no more wittner 100D or repacked 100D from John Schwind once current stocks are exhausted....
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#11 Jacob Waltman

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Posted 02 September 2010 - 06:29 PM

Alright thanks. Furthering this just a little more, would anyone happen to have contact information for an Andrew Hayden who was at one time of the UK (and may still be). Much appreciated...
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#12 Will Montgomery

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Posted 03 September 2010 - 09:06 AM

...and now kodak have axed 100D in the ds-8 format, so possibly no more wittner 100D or repacked 100D from John Schwind once current stocks are exhausted....

Someone just needs to buy a large enough quantity and Kodak will perf it up as DS-8 I'd bet. They do special runs all the time as long as the stock still exists.
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#13 Andries Molenaar

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 01:58 PM

Someone just needs to buy a large enough quantity and Kodak will perf it up as DS-8 I'd bet. They do special runs all the time as long as the stock still exists.



Well, that should allow Wittner to keep the product in their catalog. :) They also have a Velvia in DS8. Plus two BW films.

Cinevia should have their version of some Velvia in DS8 (and 16mm, S8, R8?)
Seems there is now some real production of it.
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#14 Andries Molenaar

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 02:26 PM

Oh, got further info on a Sunday-evening. :)

Wittner has two BW film types and a Fuji reversal color in DS8.
They also have Ektachrome 100D in DS-8
I asked them, Wittner, how things would evolve in the future and they answer, on a Sunday-evening!, that Kodak will stop supply of small quantities (20 x 122meter) DS8 but continue to supply rolls of 610 meter which are used for S8 cartridge. Wittner will continue to purchase these long rolls and will supply customers with DS-8 on 30meter rolls. :)

Posted Image
Kameraspule 30,5m / 100 ft.
Best.-Nr. 5121 - (39.41 EUR netto) 46.90 EUR brutto Kameraspule 30,5m / 100 ft. + Entwicklung (processing)
incl. Entwicklungsgutschein (Versandbeutel) für Deutschland und Europa mit Rückversand, gültig 12 Monate. Standardentwicklung / Standardversand.
Best.-Nr. 5121E - (73.03 EUR netto) 86.90 EUR brutto
Wittner page

Netto is ex sales tax, Brutto is including sales tax which applies to EU countries


Edited by Andries Molenaar, 05 September 2010 - 02:27 PM.

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#15 Will Montgomery

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 02:53 PM

Will labs process regular 8 or DS8 without splitting? My local telecine shop has several Spirits with 16mm gates but no Super 8. Thought I'd experiment in by having them transfer R8 or DS8 that hasn't been split on their 16mm Spirit and see how that worked.
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#16 Andries Molenaar

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 03:08 PM

Just be glad the film stays in the repertoire.

Why so complicated? A splitter will cost like 5-10 Euro and you can send your film anywhere with a top machine

The perfs on DS-8 are much smaller then 16mm ones. Do spirits use perfs?

Edited by Andries Molenaar, 05 September 2010 - 03:09 PM.

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#17 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 05 September 2010 - 06:55 PM

Oh, got further info on a Sunday-evening. :)

I asked them, Wittner, how things would evolve in the future and they answer, on a Sunday-evening!, that Kodak will stop supply of small quantities (20 x 122meter) DS8 but continue to supply rolls of 610 meter which are used for S8 cartridge. Wittner will continue to purchase these long rolls and will supply customers with DS-8 on 30meter rolls. :)


Good on you Mr Wittner! This is great news. Thanks Andries for finding this out and posting it. Yes, all super 8 at Kodak goes through a Ds8 phase these days (ie sprocketed super 8 on the edges in 16mm width). Theoretically Kodak could supply their entire super 8 range in Ds8 in this length. But they have never been willing to do this in the past. I am glad they are going to do this for Mr Wittner with 100d.
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#18 Nicholas Rapak

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 12:07 AM

Will labs process regular 8 or DS8 without splitting? My local telecine shop has several Spirits with 16mm gates but no Super 8. Thought I'd experiment in by having them transfer R8 or DS8 that hasn't been split on their 16mm Spirit and see how that worked.



Sure. I don't know of a single lab that processes R8 after splitting, they just process as 16mm, than split. All you have to do is ask.
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#19 Marc FALCHIER

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 03:48 AM

Hello,
I just wanted to inform you i'm selling a CANON SCOOPIC DS8 if somebody is interested in. My price is 380 Euros.
Regards. Marc ( Paris)
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#20 Jacob Waltman

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 05:25 PM

Hello,
I just wanted to inform you i'm selling a CANON SCOOPIC DS8 if somebody is interested in. My price is 380 Euros.
Regards. Marc ( Paris)



Sorry, I'm desperately interested in the Pathe DS8/BTL Pro (please anyone contact me) instead. Hopefully someone else needs one of those cameras though...
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