Jump to content


Photo

Need advice on buying first 16mm camera


  • Please log in to reply
6 replies to this topic

#1 Nick J Evans

Nick J Evans

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 3 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 08 July 2010 - 09:27 PM

Hello!
I have been looking to purchase a cheaper used 16mm camera. My budget is less than $1000. I was wondering if there is a decent crystal sync camera for under that price. I have considered buying a Bolex H16 right now and then purchasing a crystal sync motor later on. I have a great deal of experience with the Arriflex SR1 but of course it's out of my financial reach. Thanks!
  • 0

#2 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 7116 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 08 July 2010 - 10:33 PM

The Bolex may be crystal, but too loud for sync mostly. I'd look into an Eclair ACL, which is a nice camera for a S16mm conversion later on, and the basis, so I'm told, for Aaton cameras which took a lot from their design.
  • 0

#3 Olex Kalynychenko

Olex Kalynychenko
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 868 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Dnepropetrovsk, Ukraine

Posted 09 July 2010 - 01:21 AM

Hello!
I have been looking to purchase a cheaper used 16mm camera. My budget is less than $1000. I was wondering if there is a decent crystal sync camera for under that price. I have considered buying a Bolex H16 right now and then purchasing a crystal sync motor later on. I have a great deal of experience with the Arriflex SR1 but of course it's out of my financial reach. Thanks!


I doubt, what Bolex and Eclair will have price less $1000.
16 mm Crystal sync speed camera and price less $1000, unreal.
I see way :
Kinor-16 SX-2M, original edition, 100 ft, 400 ft film magazines, 12-120 or 10-100 zoom lens with original 29EPSS motor ( analog speed stabilization) can have price $650..850.
Will need additional battery, power cord, charging unit. $150..250
29EPSS motor Upgrade to crystal sync speed, difference versions, price from 320 euros.
The camera can ask of service, re-lube.

May be, at first stage, to use original edition of camera with 29EPSS motor with 25 fps.
If you need 24 fps, 29ESS motor can be re-calibrate.
Analog system of speed stabilization have speed stability +/- 2,5%. This is good value for shooting.
At second stage, you can upgrade of motor on crystal sync speed with wide list of speeds, up to 50, 60 fps.

If you need cheaper used 16mm camera with less price, this can be Krasnogrosk-3.

But, Krasnogrhosk-3 have mechanical spring motor and have limit with list of a wide angle lenses.
After a some time to use of Krasnogrosk-3 you will think about wide angle lenses, 400 ft magazine and electrical motor and will go to Kinor-16 or other camera with motor.
Kinor-16 can have 6 mm super wide angle lens, 10 mm, 15 mm ... up to 300 mm.
Zoom lenses 10-100 mm can have 0.75 x front attachmnet ( with attachmnet 7.5-75 mm ).
Kinor-16 can have high sensitivity, high resolution video assistance, can be upgrade to PL mount and S16.

You can ask me about technical details of Kinor and other russian cameras or visit of my site.

Edited by Olex Kalynychenko, 09 July 2010 - 01:22 AM.

  • 0

#4 Brian Rose

Brian Rose
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 896 posts
  • Student
  • Kansas City area

Posted 09 July 2010 - 10:14 AM

Hello!
I have been looking to purchase a cheaper used 16mm camera. My budget is less than $1000. I was wondering if there is a decent crystal sync camera for under that price. I have considered buying a Bolex H16 right now and then purchasing a crystal sync motor later on. I have a great deal of experience with the Arriflex SR1 but of course it's out of my financial reach. Thanks!


You won't find one, plain and simple.

Not, at least, without cutting a lot of corners that'll cost you more money later in camera serving and reshoots. You need to re-evaluate what your goals are, and what your budget will allow, because what you're asking with the budget you have available is quite simply not realistic. A $1000 will get you an MOS camera at best, and even then, you won't have much left. My first 16mmm was a Bolex Reflex, which together with servicing cost me close to $700. And the Reflex model is one of the more basic Bolex cameras we're talking about. The RX models, the SBMs and ELs cost even more.

I would strongly advise against the H16. It is a non reflex, so you can't see what you film, nor adjust focus while filming. Frankly I consider it a collectible, not a practical working camera. It has an older type 8:1 motor mount, the motors for which are getting tough to find. On top of that, you'll have to barney the hell out of the camera, and still, it won't be terribly quiet.

My first sync 16mm camera cost me $2400...it was an Eclair NPR, and that is about the most affordable model out there. It's come down in price, and they come up on ebay frequently, but still you'd be lucky to get one for under $2000.

If a $1000 is all you have to spend, then you shouldn't spend it. You should save it, and instead try to borrow a camera. Or rent. Because anything you can get for under a thousand you'll probably later regret...

BR
  • 0

#5 Bruce Taylor

Bruce Taylor
  • Sustaining Members
  • 482 posts
  • Other
  • Los Angeles

Posted 09 July 2010 - 12:23 PM

You won't find one, plain and simple.


I completely agree with Brian's comments, but there may be an exception. Cinema Products CP16 or CP16R. Certainly not as elegant as the Eclairs or Arris, but a workhorse and cheap! The CP16 is non-reflex uses a dogleg reflex viewfinder that is part of the lens. Not the best choice, but it will work. The CP16R is a spinning mirror reflex, quiet, crystal sync. 400ft mags. Good lenses available (I had an amazingly sharp Canon macro zoom on one of mine), and you can get an Arri lens adapter to use Arri std or bayo lenses on it. I had 2 CP16R kits and sold them recently, one for $600 and a freshly rebuilt one with the Canon lens for $900 I think. Service and parts are still available through Whitehouse AV last time I checked.
  • 0

#6 Brian Rose

Brian Rose
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 896 posts
  • Student
  • Kansas City area

Posted 09 July 2010 - 01:24 PM

Bruce,

I'd forgotten about the CP16, which is a rather fine camera.

I'm interested to learn more about what Nick hopes to do with this camera? I mean, he wants to shoot sync sound 16mm, but only has 1000 to spend on the camera? Something isn't adding up here...
  • 0

#7 Bill DiPietra

Bill DiPietra
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2339 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • New York City

Posted 13 July 2010 - 09:35 AM

The Bolex is a fine camera, but if you are planning on shooting sync sound films, I wouldn't go any lower than the Arriflex 16 BL. It's a workhorse and I used it to shoot my first 16mm film. If sync sound IS NOT an issue, you may want to consider the smaller Arriflex 16 S/B (a great camera that I have been very happy with.)

Either way, even with this "digitial revolution," $1000 for a good film camera package is a bit unrealistic. $3000 - $4000 is more like it.
  • 0


Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

CineTape

rebotnix Technologies

Ritter Battery

Technodolly

Willys Widgets

Metropolis Post

Opal

Rig Wheels Passport

Abel Cine

The Slider

Aerial Filmworks

FJS International, LLC

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Tai Audio

CineLab

Wooden Camera

Glidecam

Visual Products

Paralinx LLC

Tai Audio

FJS International, LLC

Opal

Abel Cine

CineLab

Paralinx LLC

Ritter Battery

Wooden Camera

Rig Wheels Passport

rebotnix Technologies

Technodolly

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Aerial Filmworks

Visual Products

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Metropolis Post

The Slider

CineTape

Willys Widgets

Glidecam