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Maturity levels and respect on the set.


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#1 George Ebersole

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 02:40 AM

I just had a heart to heart with one of my bosses regarding personnel issues. We exchanged some concerns. The discussion we had reminded me of the idiots one occasionally runs into media. The kind of guy who pulls pranks on onlookers who are fascinated as to how a movie gets made, or does the same to young PAs fresh out of film school.

What's your definition of maturity. How do you act professional when on stage or a location?
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#2 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 07:21 AM

In my experience everyone has their own feeling about set etiquette and proper behaviour that they're convinced is the only accurate one and that it is universally accepted. I think it may be this mistaken assumption that there's any sort of unified, shared experience that actually causes problems; human beings do not work like that, especially human beings who have different life experiences and have been given disparate and possibly conflicting responsibilities.




I think it's excessively self-centred to believe that what happens on film sets is particularly rare. People in positions of authority can usually do more or less as they please and get away with it, and the only useful reaction to a superior who's misbehaving is often simply to leave. Very few people have any actual respect for what anyone else does, regardless of position in the pecking order. Highly paid people are paid to take responsibility, but will often shirk it if given half a chance. These are not "film industry" factors, these are "life" factors and while there seems to be a pervasive view that the film industry is in some way unique in this regard, I don't think any of this is something we couldn't find in every office job in the world.


I have worked on film sets where I have been treated with absolute contempt, and I've worked with crews I'm still in touch with to this day; I am not aware of having altered my behaviour. Trying to create the latter scenario is down, gross negligence aside, to good management, and this is one of the responsibilities that I find 1st ADs do quite well but DPs often do very, very badly. A director of photography is principally a photographer and is likely to have achieved the position having taken absolutely no management training and having had absolutely no management experience whatsoever, and I have seen this skills gap cause problems on several occasions. Film sets and/or camera departments are often abysmally badly managed.


P
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#3 George Ebersole

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 10:28 AM

In my experience everyone has their own feeling about set etiquette and proper behaviour that they're convinced is the only accurate one and that it is universally accepted. I think it may be this mistaken assumption that there's any sort of unified, shared experience that actually causes problems; human beings do not work like that, especially human beings who have different life experiences and have been given disparate and possibly conflicting responsibilities.




I think it's excessively self-centred to believe that what happens on film sets is particularly rare. People in positions of authority can usually do more or less as they please and get away with it, and the only useful reaction to a superior who's misbehaving is often simply to leave. Very few people have any actual respect for what anyone else does, regardless of position in the pecking order. Highly paid people are paid to take responsibility, but will often shirk it if given half a chance. These are not "film industry" factors, these are "life" factors and while there seems to be a pervasive view that the film industry is in some way unique in this regard, I don't think any of this is something we couldn't find in every office job in the world.


I have worked on film sets where I have been treated with absolute contempt, and I've worked with crews I'm still in touch with to this day; I am not aware of having altered my behaviour. Trying to create the latter scenario is down, gross negligence aside, to good management, and this is one of the responsibilities that I find 1st ADs do quite well but DPs often do very, very badly. A director of photography is principally a photographer and is likely to have achieved the position having taken absolutely no management training and having had absolutely no management experience whatsoever, and I have seen this skills gap cause problems on several occasions. Film sets and/or camera departments are often abysmally badly managed.


P

Wow, I've waited 25 years to hear this. Thanks for the reinforcement on my views regarding competency on sets, and who gets promoted to do what and why.

You're right, and I don't want to create a bandwagon of bashing DPs because hey, after all, this is Cinematography.com, but there were a lot of DPs and camera operators that I worked with and for who weren't qualified to give orders, but were given charge. That only reinforced the "it's who you know" view on how to get into media of any kind.

There've been times where the gaffer (of all people) had to step in essentially do the director's or production manager's job of telling people to shut up. I'd worked with guys in their 40s acting like kids sometimes. And I see that at my current job, but the owner allows it, so all I can do is shrug and shake my head (but then pass it onto the owners wife).

It reminded me of some of the immaturity I saw on various shoots I worked on. Certainly not all, maybe not even most, but a good chunk of work I had tossed my way had a portion of adults, grown men, acting like kids, or worse, juvenile delinquents, right down to getting a hotel room so they could all go and get high.

Anybody else with similar experiences? How do you exercise your professionalism when on a set?
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#4 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 10:43 AM

I agree with Phil, although I'd say that the difference between a typical work office environment and a film set is often the stress induced by long hours, which can occasionally cause even the nicest person in the world to become uncharacteristically cruel and unreasonable now & then. But I'm sure high-stress office environments, with long hours, like in an ad agency or on Wall Street can be the same (though they might not be standing for 12 hours out in the Texas sun in July being eaten by mosquitos while they make their deals...)

Everyone sets their own personal expectations for behavior, it's just that some individuals have pretty low expectations or have poor interpersonal skills (sometimes this can be a deterrent in the film industry, sometimes not). I'd say that for a lot of us, it depends on how we were raised -- it's a bit late on a film set to start correcting the mistakes of parenting.

The jocular nature of a film set does seem to bring out the best and worst of youth even in older crew members - I often feel like it's high school all over again, with me still sitting at lunch with the nerds and geeks while the actors are like the prom queens, cheerleaders, and football jocks, etc. But then I don't really fit in with the working class types either on a film set...

I try to hire well so I don't have to do a lot of behavior management work for my departments, but occasionally you have a problem that needs addressing, you find out that one of your grips or camera assistants, for example, was rude to one of the PA's or art department members, etc. and you have to give them a lecture and tell them to watch their attitude if they want to keep working for you. You also have to remind them of their sexual harassment training now & then when you see the jokes on set crossing the line.

I guess I try to lead by example, figuring if I can do my job without becoming a bully or a screamer, then people won't feel inclined to be one either. But even I have my bad days.

As Phil says, we all have different opinions about the proper way to behave on a film set. I like calm and quiet because it's hard for me to concentrate otherwise. Some people like noise and conflict, tension on a set, people on edge, etc. Some people want a very macho set full of loud, tough, big men. Hopefully we'll all gravitate towards the type of people that work in a manner that we feel is optimal.

I think though that there are certain things that most of us can agree on, like the need for a safe working environment and personal respect between crew members and a minimum of distractions from getting the work done in a timely manner.

As for after-hours hijinks on location, I'm always surprised when I hear stories about that because I certainly don't have the energy after a full day of work for any nonsense like that.
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#5 Saul Rodgar

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 04:44 PM

One of the big reasons why I only can do one big budget feature or TV show a year as an assistant is the drama --if I really need the money, that is, otherwise I won't even consider it. I can't stand endless drama and people barking at each other on set.

I don't mind sarcasm and cynicism. But the it is the perennial "do or die" attitude that I found to be trickling down from production on all sets these days, pretty much 24/7 --and all the petty snipping that comes with it-- what gets me. Not worth my time. Yeah, sure, we all need to do our best effort and so on, but when it involves near-unreasonable people with near-unreasonable expectations ALL THE TIME, that is a big put off for me.

In fact, I find that I have followed the example of older hands who have developed a very thick crust of cynicism and sarcasm (which I personally have a natural tendency to anyway), to counter the perpetual "end of the world" attitude of production, as a sort of "chill the f--- out, it's only a movie" antidote to the near-maddening stress.

I haven't DPd a big show, so I don't know how I would handle all the high-stakes, stressful politicking that comes with the job. As David says, we all gravitate towards the people who we like to work with, but also, we all gravitate to the job situations we like to work in, sometimes subconsciously. I naturally dislike large crowds, so for me that means skeleton crews, B-unit, more running-gun filming, where there isn't the crews by the hundreds, etc. But of course, that can have its own pitfalls.

At the end of the day, tho, I rather be poorer than be stressed out half-to-death most of the time . . . ;)
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#6 George Ebersole

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 04:50 PM

I agree with Phil, although I'd say that the difference between a typical work office environment and a film set is often the stress induced by long hours, which can occasionally cause even the nicest person in the world to become uncharacteristically cruel and unreasonable now & then. But I'm sure high-stress office environments, with long hours, like in an ad agency or on Wall Street can be the same (though they might not be standing for 12 hours out in the Texas sun in July being eaten by mosquitos while they make their deals...)

Everyone sets their own personal expectations for behavior, it's just that some individuals have pretty low expectations or have poor interpersonal skills (sometimes this can be a deterrent in the film industry, sometimes not). I'd say that for a lot of us, it depends on how we were raised -- it's a bit late on a film set to start correcting the mistakes of parenting.

The jocular nature of a film set does seem to bring out the best and worst of youth even in older crew members - I often feel like it's high school all over again, with me still sitting at lunch with the nerds and geeks while the actors are like the prom queens, cheerleaders, and football jocks, etc. But then I don't really fit in with the working class types either on a film set...

I try to hire well so I don't have to do a lot of behavior management work for my departments, but occasionally you have a problem that needs addressing, you find out that one of your grips or camera assistants, for example, was rude to one of the PA's or art department members, etc. and you have to give them a lecture and tell them to watch their attitude if they want to keep working for you. You also have to remind them of their sexual harassment training now & then when you see the jokes on set crossing the line.

I guess I try to lead by example, figuring if I can do my job without becoming a bully or a screamer, then people won't feel inclined to be one either. But even I have my bad days.

As Phil says, we all have different opinions about the proper way to behave on a film set. I like calm and quiet because it's hard for me to concentrate otherwise. Some people like noise and conflict, tension on a set, people on edge, etc. Some people want a very macho set full of loud, tough, big men. Hopefully we'll all gravitate towards the type of people that work in a manner that we feel is optimal.

I think though that there are certain things that most of us can agree on, like the need for a safe working environment and personal respect between crew members and a minimum of distractions from getting the work done in a timely manner.

As for after-hours hijinks on location, I'm always surprised when I hear stories about that because I certainly don't have the energy after a full day of work for any nonsense like that.

Lead by example I think is the best approach. I also tend to gravitate towards people with like interests. Up here in the Bay Area things gravitate towards the nerdy or artistic. Most of what gets shot here are industrials for the Silicon valley set and all the offshoot business from the computer industry.

When I managed I rarely, but occasionally, had to raise my voice. If someone was goofing off (severely) or otherwise acting unprofessional and/or didn't know their job, we'd take corrective action, then we simply didn't hire them anymore. Reputations get around in a small knit community up here (or they did at one point). I imagine LA and NY are different.

The "partying" after work always struck me as odd as well, and for the same reason. I was exhausted after having to toss homeless from wandering through the back stage door, or cruising around town picking up and dropping off equipment, or running to get lunches, making coffee at 5AM and all that went with stage managing and AD-ing. And even if you did have the time, why would you risk your rep by doing whatever illegal substance was available? I mean, that stuff impairs performance (I've never done drugs myself), so why would you do it late at night when you had an early call time the next morning? Very strange.

The high-school analogy seems apt, but it seems more like a big production phenomena. The smaller the crew, the more people are forced together.
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#7 K Borowski

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 06:04 PM

The "partying" after work always struck me as odd as well, and for the same reason. I was exhausted after having to toss homeless from wandering through the back stage door, or cruising around town picking up and dropping off equipment, or running to get lunches, making coffee at 5AM and all that went with stage managing and AD-ing. And even if you did have the time, why would you risk your rep by doing whatever illegal substance was available? I mean, that stuff impairs performance (I've never done drugs myself), so why would you do it late at night when you had an early call time the next morning? Very strange.


I've heard of it being done at the end of the FINAL day shooting; you're right though, it is irresponsible the night before a shoot.

IDK if this behavior is unprofessional, though, as at least the substance I think you are referring to is borderline illegal in California anyway, and, on the East coast, there is a substitute available that is equally effective. As long as someone isn't stumbling around high on the job, I don't see what difference it makes what someone does to let off steam after 20 hour days.

I don't judge anymore. Illegal substances aren't my thing, but I have my faults and I don't think them any better or worse than this. I used to feel the way you do when I was younger, but it really is arbitrary what substances are legal in the United States and what substances aren't. It has more to do with tradition, politics, fear, and tax revenue than anything else.
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#8 George Ebersole

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 01:04 AM

I've heard of it being done at the end of the FINAL day shooting; you're right though, it is irresponsible the night before a shoot.

IDK if this behavior is unprofessional, though, as at least the substance I think you are referring to is borderline illegal in California anyway, and, on the East coast, there is a substitute available that is equally effective. As long as someone isn't stumbling around high on the job, I don't see what difference it makes what someone does to let off steam after 20 hour days.

I don't judge anymore. Illegal substances aren't my thing, but I have my faults and I don't think them any better or worse than this. I used to feel the way you do when I was younger, but it really is arbitrary what substances are legal in the United States and what substances aren't. It has more to do with tradition, politics, fear, and tax revenue than anything else.

Yeah, I don't want to turn this into a debate on drugs. They're illegal, and that's that.

Beyond drugs though, I recall a bikini contest many years back covered by GRB Entertainment. During an interview sequence with one of the contestants one of the ADs turned to the producer, and right in front of this girl's face, while she was being interviewed, said "This girl's a dog."

I'll never forget it. Okay, the girl didn't have the most attractive face, but, why would you say that within earshot?

That's one of many examples of a low end maturity level on a set. And, this AD was a former geography teacher, meaning to me that he should have had a bit more class around young women.

That kind of behavior, to me at least, is grounds for dismissal with any other company. The producer's response, to turn his head, laugh, and make some other comment inaudible to me. These two guys were both pretty short, and reminded a guy of the less intelligent nerds in that same high-school classroom. Two guys who should have known better how to behave, didn't. And, they were in charge.
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#9 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 09:51 AM

Nothing is worse than when you have an 1AD who lacks time management skills.. rather annoying. I find that on my own sets there is a degree of immaturity. I'm known myself to try to get a laugh when I can.. and when I feel very comfortable with a director, such as my good friend whom i've shot with numerous times, I'll play a little prank on him sometime throughout the shoot-- all on downtime all in good fun. I find that sets do polarize into likes and dislikes. I tend to eat lunched by myself, not that I don't like people, but rather that I have to deal with everyone throughout the rest of the day and I'd like these 15 minutes to eat to my own mind. I tend not to yell or anything of the sort, but when I do, and I do when needed, it seems to get attention (go from being nice and easy going and relaxed to raising my voice really gets attention!) I don't know why people on set takes things to seriously or get so cliquey. I would think that with all of us working in the same industry there'd be some kind of common ground on which we can all get along. We don't, though. And sadly some people lack the ability to really deal with others.
As for illegal substances, my policy is such: I don't care what you do when you're not working on a film set, but if/when you're on crew and I hear that you're doing anything like that, I won't fire you but you're not getting called again. Though honestly, I dunno if I could work the hours I work without having a nice jack and coke when I get back home.

In the end, I would say this, don't get concerned with how mature other people are on set; just be concerned with how mature you act on set. Like everything else in life you'll need to deal with bull**** and a**holes, just how life is I suppose.
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#10 George Ebersole

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 12:57 AM

Nothing is worse than when you have an 1AD who lacks time management skills.. rather annoying. I find that on my own sets there is a degree of immaturity. I'm known myself to try to get a laugh when I can.. and when I feel very comfortable with a director, such as my good friend whom i've shot with numerous times, I'll play a little prank on him sometime throughout the shoot-- all on downtime all in good fun. I find that sets do polarize into likes and dislikes. I tend to eat lunched by myself, not that I don't like people, but rather that I have to deal with everyone throughout the rest of the day and I'd like these 15 minutes to eat to my own mind. I tend not to yell or anything of the sort, but when I do, and I do when needed, it seems to get attention (go from being nice and easy going and relaxed to raising my voice really gets attention!) I don't know why people on set takes things to seriously or get so cliquey. I would think that with all of us working in the same industry there'd be some kind of common ground on which we can all get along. We don't, though. And sadly some people lack the ability to really deal with others.
As for illegal substances, my policy is such: I don't care what you do when you're not working on a film set, but if/when you're on crew and I hear that you're doing anything like that, I won't fire you but you're not getting called again. Though honestly, I dunno if I could work the hours I work without having a nice jack and coke when I get back home.

In the end, I would say this, don't get concerned with how mature other people are on set; just be concerned with how mature you act on set. Like everything else in life you'll need to deal with bull**** and a**holes, just how life is I suppose.

It depends on the crew. When I was younger and worked with older crews, guys mostly in their late 30s, 40s and 50s, there was a level of maturity, but also a kind of immaturity that kept those guys from rising anything above what they were doing (slate or something).

As a young man striving for excellence, I have to say that I did take that stuff personally, and thought it more than just unprofessional. Now, at my age, I shrug at it. I've tried to lead by example in the past by not indulging or engaging in poor behavior. But the one's who need the coaching the most are the ones who ignore examples.

To be honest, I sometimes wish there was a licensing or certification program for grips, gaffers, DPs, ADs, and all pertinent crew members. Something that says "The State of California" or wherever, that Person-X is capable of handling Task-Y with professionalism. They will not harass the locals, act like jerks, and do what's asked of them without b___ching and whining about craft services. But that's just me :)
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#11 Tom Jensen

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 02:51 AM

To be honest, I sometimes wish there was a licensing or certification program for grips, gaffers, DPs, ADs, and all pertinent crew members. Something that says "The State of California" or wherever, that Person-X is capable of handling Task-Y with professionalism. They will not harass the locals, act like jerks, and do what's asked of them without b___ching and whining about craft services. But that's just me :)

The state of California issues drivers license and there are wrecks everyday. Good luck with that, though! :blink:

Edited by Tom Jensen, 19 July 2010 - 02:51 AM.

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#12 Saul Rodgar

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 12:15 PM

[quote name='George Ebersole' date='18 July 2010 - 11:57 PM' timestamp='1279519025'

To be honest, I sometimes wish there was a licensing or certification program for grips, gaffers, DPs, ADs, and all pertinent crew members. Something that says "The State of California" or wherever, that Person-X is capable of handling Task-Y with professionalism. They will not harass the locals, act like jerks, and do what's asked of them without b___ching and whining about craft services. But that's just me :)
[/quote]

That is what the union locals are for. All the offended party has to do is let them know about it. I have seen them tackle some of these issues sending out mass correspondence to the members of the specific craft with something along these lines:

"We have received reports of one or several crew member(s) --who will not be id'd here-- who have incurred in such and such unacceptable behavior on set. In an attempt to make sure we all aware of appropriate on set behaviors here is a run down of how to handle / prevent these situations in the future, etc."

Some even include stern warnings along the lines of: "If we continue to receive similar complaints, the offending member(s) won't be recommended for future jobs, etc"
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#13 Tom Jensen

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 02:13 PM

Production usually polices bad behavior. The AD's are pretty aware of what's going on because they are the ones who keep the set together moving in the direction that budget and schedule dictate. If somebody is out of control, they get fired. There is a parking lot full of out of work grips, DP's, AC's etc that are waiting in line hoping that someone gets fired so they can step in and take over. When an actor steps on a set, it is now their time. Your job should be done and you should be ready. No excuses. If you are having a problem or an issue, tell the AD and it should be resolved. Tempers flare and arguments happen. Usually cooler heads prevail but most crew members understand the pressures and headaches that come with the long days, the long weeks and sometimes the long months of working on a production. Everyone his the wall and most snap in their own way one time or another. It's not a perfect world.

If someone smokes a little pot or has a few beers after work, so what. I don't really care that it's illegal. It shouldn't be and film people have been known to party. Film making is another world. It's a circus and sometimes you have to be a little tolerant of other people's habits. You might not like it but that's too bad. As far as being stuck in a job that's just a perception. Many crew members don't want to move up. Some people make a good living doing what they do and don't want the responsibility or the headache that goes with the job of department head.

Edited by Tom Jensen, 19 July 2010 - 02:14 PM.

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#14 Saul Rodgar

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 03:03 PM

Production usually polices bad behavior. The AD's are pretty aware of what's going on because they are the ones who keep the set together moving in the direction that budget and schedule dictate. If somebody is out of control, they get fired. There is a parking lot full of out of work grips, DP's, AC's etc that are waiting in line hoping that someone gets fired so they can step in and take over.


That is true, to a certain extent. A few years back, I used to work on an ABC TV show and the main director / writer was a big coke-head. But production only covered for him, even when it was evident that his work or his attitude were not up to par. But, of course, he was the director / writer. For lower level crew members the axe would have come down swiftly.

Many crew members don't want to move up. Some people make a good living doing what they do and don't want the responsibility or the headache that goes with the job of department head.


Amen to that.
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#15 Tom Jensen

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Posted 19 July 2010 - 05:20 PM

That is true, to a certain extent. A few years back, I used to work on an ABC TV show and the main director / writer was a big coke-head. But production only covered for him, even when it was evident that his work or his attitude were not up to par. But, of course, he was the director / writer. For lower level crew members the axe would have come down swiftly.


Above the line is whole different story. Why do you think people clap after a take? It's disingenuous but it gets their message across. And that is, "I'm a butt kisser." I never understood it myself. Don't forget to laugh at all the director's joke no matter how unfunny they might be. :unsure:
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#16 George Ebersole

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 12:56 AM

Above the line is whole different story. Why do you think people clap after a take? It's disingenuous but it gets their message across. And that is, "I'm a butt kisser." I never understood it myself. Don't forget to laugh at all the director's joke no matter how unfunny they might be. :unsure:

Years back I remember some rich spoiled brat of a director came onto our stage, and tasked me with looking after his dogs. Man these things barked and barked and barked and barked and barked some more. Fortunately they were in the prop room and the stage was baffled, but if it had been the gaffer's or the AC's dogs, then they would have had to sweat it out in the grip truck or something.

The guy was shooting some kind of HBO sit-com (circa 1992? I Can't remember). The thing stank. It wasn't funny in the least, but wouldn't you know it, everyone on stage had to laugh. I never saw such phony behavior in all my life. Talk about ass kissing. Wow. That was a whole new level of it that I hadn't seen before.

Now, was this professional? You tell me. Stuff like that I don't miss. Nor the ex-hippie production manager from LA who threw his ego to the facility owner because of the no-smoking policy. Loads and loads of stories.

Yeah, above the line people are a whole different world. A good chunk of them are paranoids and egomaniacs. Which is why when you get a good one you cherish them.
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