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Inherited A Bunch of Cine Lenses, Need Help!


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#1 Gregg Hull

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Posted 20 July 2010 - 11:47 PM

Greetings,

I must admit that I am not an industry child, I was a tool and die maker by trade and through a film industry link in the family I've been commissioned many timed to cut custom adapters, FF gears, etc., but that's as close as I got to film (aside from being present at a few shoots here and there) and I know zilch about cine lenses.

My link was Pat Shea, a cinematographer and son of documentarian and cinematographer Mike Shea who died in a tragic helicopter crash while compiling a shot list in pre-production for the Meat Loaf rock video "Left In The Dark" in 1995. Pat was a very close family friend who unfortunately succumbed to cancer a few years ago. As a result, I inherited a Haliburton case full of a bunch of cine lenses, mostly primes, and a couple oddball items like an old Cameflex 8v camera motor. In trying to determine what I had I quickly became lost in the quagmire of industry insider lingo and assumed knowledge. From what little I've been able to discern, most are circa '50s/'60s, but what do I know.

I'm tempted to get them professionally refurbished/cleaned, but as this seems to be rather expensive I would rather not spend a bunch of money for a bunch of worthless lenses. Any help and/or guidance would be greatly appreciated, even if it's just to shove me toward someone who can.

I understand completely that I am an outsider here, so please forgive me if I've stepped on anyone's toes.

Thanx in advance, ~G (list follows)

((As I have no idea what's important and what's not, I've written descriptions exactly as they appear on the lenses objective rings.)

1. P. Angenieux Paris F. 35-140mm 1:3.5 Angenieux – Zoom Type 4 x 35 T1 No. 1213591
a. Tiffen 54.5 M7 Adapter ring Series 7
b. Tiffen Series 7 to 8 Step-Up Ring
c. Tiffen series #8 W.A, Lens Shade
d. Cameflex – Éclair mount

2. P. Angenieux Paris F. 14,5 [sic] 1:3.5 Retrofocus Type R62 No. 1036160
a. Cameflex – Éclair mount

3. Astro-Berlin No. 53269 C (in red) Pan-Tachar 1:1.8 150mm
a. Cameflex – Éclair mount

4. Apochromat KINOPTIK Paris ½ F= 35mm No. 34955
a. Mod .8/32 pitch seamless aluminum focus-follow gear rings
b. Cameflex – Éclair mount

5. Heinz Kilfitt Munchen Makro-Kilar A 1:2.8 / 4cm (3 dots= blue, red, yellow) Nr. 254-0818
a. Cameflex – Éclair mount

6. Nippon Kogaku Japan No. 350347 Nikkor – N Auto 1:1.4 F=35mm
____________________________________________________

7. Kinoptik Paris F 3.5 Focale 300mm No. 11043 Special – Cine
a. Arri standard mount

8. Apochromat Kinoptik Paris ½ F=25mm No. 34532
a. Arri standard mount

9. Apochromat Kinoptik Paris ½ F=35mm No. 34956
a. Arri standard mount

10. Apochromat Kinoptik Paris ½ F=28mm No. 48687
a. Arri standard mount

11. Carl Zeiss Nr. 4995462 Distagon 1:2 F=16mm (focal ring O.D. sez...“ARRIFLEX”)
a. Arri standard mount

12. Cooke Speed Panchro Lens No. 314704 35mm f/2 ELC
a. Arri standard mount

13. Cooke Speed Panchro Ser. III 668363 25mm f/2 T2.2 (second “2” is subscript)
(focal ring O.D. sez…”Lens made in England by Rank Taylor Hobson” followed by “TAYLOR HOBSON 25mm Ser.III Arriflex”)
a. Arri standard mount

14. Cooke Speed Panchro Ser. II No. 543010 40mm f/2 T2.3 (the “3” is subscript)
a. Arri standard mount
______________________________________________________________

15. U.S. NAVY Canon AE-1 ser. 5726882
a. Canon Lens FD 50mm 1:1.4
b. Canon Lens FD 200mm 1:4

16. Cameflex Moteur (motor) 8v Service Intermittent (for intermittent use) No. 2003 Type 24
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#2 Tom Jensen

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 01:11 AM

It's not worth a tremendous amount but they are worth something. I don't have #'s but talk to Paul Duclos, Ken Rich and Ken Stone. That would be a start.
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#3 Gregg Hull

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 02:11 AM

Thank you very much Tom. Now, who are Paul, Ken, and Ken? Are they denizens of this forum? Please excuse my ignorance.

~G
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#4 Gregg Hull

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 03:00 AM

Thank you very much Tom. Now, who are Paul, Ken, and Ken? Are they denizens of this forum? Please excuse my ignorance.

~G

Never mind... I found them. Thanx again! ~G
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#5 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 12:20 PM

If you ever wanna get rid of any of those lenses I can give 'em a good home ;) Though not "baller" by any measure, let me know if you'd be willing to sell any of 'em and for how much. I'm always keen on picking up older/unloved/underused/cheaper glass just to have for personal projects/testing.
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#6 John Sprung

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 02:20 PM

I'd be interested in any Arri standard mount junker lenses, say under $50 each -- just to fill the holes in my Model I collection. See what you can get for them elsewhere, then let me know what the leftovers are.


Thanks --



-- J.S.
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#7 Gregg Hull

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 05:50 PM

If you ever wanna get rid of any of those lenses I can give 'em a good home ;) Though not "baller" by any measure, let me know if you'd be willing to sell any of 'em and for how much. I'm always keen on picking up older/unloved/underused/cheaper glass just to have for personal projects/testing.

Hi Adrian,

Thanx for your reply. I might well consider your offer if I had the faintest idea what a reasonable number for any of them might be. As I have neither the expertise nor the inclination, I accept that whoever winds up with them will more than likely end up on the better end of the deal than I, but I obviously don't want to be the rube either, and the chances of that are high should I start shooting in the dark. I'm sure you understand. I'll just keep on pluggin' I guess until I either stumble upon the knowledge I seek, or by attrition simply accrue enough research to begin to illuminate my ignorance. If and when I feel that I know enough not to, on one hand, throw out the baby with the bathwater, or on the other insult your intelligence, I will for sure look you up!

BTW, what is a "baller?" Again, you must forgive my ignorance I'm afraid.

Have a great day! ~G
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#8 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 05:54 PM

Baller is a rap video term I appropriated.. associated with Jay-Z.. I think. Don't worry, I'm hard to annoy and I certainly understand your position. I wouldn't want to take them (or you) for a song and a dance, you know. Do your research, just keep me in mind, and my dibs.
The Cooke and the Zeiss, I'm sure, will be worth the most, as they can be converted to PL via adapters, and those are the two I'm more familiar with. Also, for an idea what they're worth, not trying to insult your own smarts either, but have you tried plugging the names of 'em into ebay and seeing what it spits out? Might give you an idea of what some people will be willing to bid on for 'em.
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#9 Gregg Hull

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 05:55 PM

I'd be interested in any Arri standard mount junker lenses, say under $50 each -- just to fill the holes in my Model I collection. See what you can get for them elsewhere, then let me know what the leftovers are.


Thanks --



-- J.S.

Hi John,

I will definitely keep you in mind, and thanx for your reply!

~G
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#10 Gregg Hull

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 06:09 PM

Baller is a rap video term I appropriated.. associated with Jay-Z.. I think. Don't worry, I'm hard to annoy and I certainly understand your position. I wouldn't want to take them (or you) for a song and a dance, you know. Do your research, just keep me in mind, and my dibs.
The Cooke and the Zeiss, I'm sure, will be worth the most, as they can be converted to PL via adapters, and those are the two I'm more familiar with. Also, for an idea what they're worth, not trying to insult your own smarts either, but have you tried plugging the names of 'em into ebay and seeing what it spits out? Might give you an idea of what some people will be willing to bid on for 'em.

Wow, ya learn somethin' new every day! And thanx for the tidbit on the Cooke and Zeiss, this is exactly the kind of thing I don't know (I hate not knowing what I'm doing, it's like being blind). Now, if I might pick your brain a bit, you mentioned "the" Cooke. Is that because only one of the Cooke's can be converted, and if so, which one? There was only the one Zeiss on my list so that was clear enough.

As far as eBay goes: Ya know, I did do that and found that prices ran all over the map for pieces that, due to my frustrating ignorance of all things optical, I simply couldn't tell the difference between. For instance, I saw one Angenieux 35-140mm that sold in the 4 digits, and another that was stagnating at $99 with no bids and only two days to go. I'm sure that there is very good reason for this, but I'm pickled if I know what it is.

In any event, you've been very helpful and patient and I really appreciate that in this day and age.

~G
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#11 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 06:15 PM

*cookes ;)
Anything with an Arri STD mount can be adapted for PL (as far as I know) and thrown on the newest cameras. A good place to try to sell the lenses would be to a lot of people with the RED who, I find at least, are sometimes hunting for older glass which is "softer," and helps take the "edge" off of HD and D-Cinema images.
The Annie lenses will be like that, it's a big manufacturer and a lot will depend on the status of the lens-- how much work it'll need to be in tip top shape again-- and how aggressive the market is a any given time. A lot of lenses on ebay are fake auctions, why someone would try to scam such a small market, I don't know, so I'd peg, normally, logical prices a little under whatever "high" prices you find on ebay. That's just me.
Also check out/give a call to visual products, http://www.visualproducts.com they sell some older lenses and you can find some which are similar to your own on there, I'm sure, to get an idea what a brick and mortar used dealer will charge. Also give them a call and see if you can get some appraisals for the lenses-- they may even offer to buy 'em from you.

I'd also recommend taking some photos of the lenses front and rear elements as well as writing down overall characteristics. Check the inside for any gunk-- gunk is bad-- same this with anything which appears to be growing on the lens-- this is fungus and can spread between lenses, isolate any lenses displaying a trype of growth or anything within the internal elements.

Kinoptics lenses can also be resued, but I'll admit i've never seen one in the wild myself.
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#12 K Borowski

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 06:27 PM

It's not Jay-Z, it's L'il Troy, Adrian :-p
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#13 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 06:30 PM

Pfft. plwease karl, you're whiter than a Polar Bear's ________ ;) (ok, back on topic)
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#14 Gregg Hull

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 09:03 PM

Adrian, you're a bit of alright, I don't care what Karl sez about you ;) I already know oodles more than I did, and I will follow up on your advice for sure. What did we all do before there was an internet? I try to remember those pre-web days of old, but it all seems like a hazy dream. Oh, and for the record, I am also as lily white as a polar bear's _____. After asking you what "baller" meant, I asked my kids. Every one of them rolled their eyes and looked at me like I was from another planet. Apparently I am a very old, very white guy.

Another question: I have run across this "Red" you spoke of a lot while researching these things. I take it that this is a camera, yes? Interesting that such modern community would be interested in such old lenses, though now that I think about it I can identify some parallels in my own sphere; older machine tools (lathes, mills, etc.) are notoriously heavier and more rigid than today's highly engineered machines, and are able to produce qualities unattainable with modern tools. I imagine that some of these older lenses are valued for similar reasons.

I can't thank you enough for your help. You are a credit to this forum. ~G
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#15 Hunter Hampton

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 10:45 AM

I would be interested in buying these, send me an e-mail to hunter@hunterhrichards.com , thanks!


8. Apochromat Kinoptik Paris ½ F=25mm No. 34532
a. Arri standard mount

9. Apochromat Kinoptik Paris ½ F=35mm No. 34956
a. Arri standard mount

10. Apochromat Kinoptik Paris ½ F=28mm No. 48687
a. Arri standard mount

11. Carl Zeiss Nr. 4995462 Distagon 1:2 F=16mm (focal ring O.D. sez...“ARRIFLEX”)
a. Arri standard mount

12. Cooke Speed Panchro Lens No. 314704 35mm f/2 ELC
a. Arri standard mount

13. Cooke Speed Panchro Ser. III 668363 25mm f/2 T2.2 (second “2” is subscript)
(focal ring O.D. sez…”Lens made in England by Rank Taylor Hobson” followed by “TAYLOR HOBSON 25mm Ser.III Arriflex”)
a. Arri standard mount

14. Cooke Speed Panchro Ser. II No. 543010 40mm f/2 T2.3 (the “3” is subscript)
a. Arri standard mount
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#16 John Sprung

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 01:06 PM

I have run across this "Red" you spoke of a lot while researching these things. I take it that this is a camera, yes? Interesting that such modern community would be interested in such old lenses, ....


Yes, the Red is a camera. A most unusual camera. What happened is that a billionaire decided to go into the digital cinema camera business, starting a company, designing cameras fresh from the ground up, and selling them for just $17,500, without lenses. That's like 5-10% of what a traditional camera costs, and well within the grasp of a lot of pro-sumer types. The resulting camera had a whole lot of quirks and gotchas, but they've been working hard to fix their bugs, and if you know how to work around all that stuff, you can get a good looking show from the Red. They sold thousands of them, compared with a few hundred each that may exist of the Sony F-35, Panavision Genesis, etc. And they all needed lenses. That resulted in a huge distortion in the market for old 35mm motion picture lenses. Lenses that sold for $150 a couple years before were going for $5000 on e-bay. (Things have calmed down now, lens makers like Elite, Lomo, and Sigma have jumped in and filled the new demand.)

Fixed focal length lenses are called "prime" lenses in cinematography, so I called what happened the "sub-prime lens" market. ;-) (I know, I know.... Too long a story just to get back to that old joke again.... )





-- J.S.
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#17 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 01:14 PM

Also there is a prevalence too of DSLR cameras coming out some of which will work with cine lenses (GH1, hacked 7D and 5ds and the up coming sony cameras) which will sucking up stills lenses, I predict will make a dent into the cine market as well.
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#18 Tim Carroll

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 08:19 AM

11. Carl Zeiss Nr. 4995462 Distagon 1:2 F=16mm (focal ring O.D. sez...“ARRIFLEX”)
a. Arri standard mount

13. Cooke Speed Panchro Ser. III 668363 25mm f/2 T2.2 (second “2” is subscript)
(focal ring O.D. sez…”Lens made in England by Rank Taylor Hobson” followed by “TAYLOR HOBSON 25mm Ser.III Arriflex”)
a. Arri standard mount

14. Cooke Speed Panchro Ser. II No. 543010 40mm f/2 T2.3 (the “3” is subscript)
a. Arri standard mount


Gregg,

Not an expert on the other lenses you list, but these three lenses could be worth quite a bit.

The Zeiss 16mm is a nice lens, especially the Distagon. I would think if the lens was in good condition, no scratches on the elements, no fungus, or haze, I would think this could fetch anywhere from $500 to $1500 depending on its condition, whether there are front and rear lens caps, whether is has the red T* marking (making it a Zeiss coated lens).

The Cooke Speed Panchro Ser. III 25mm lens is a very nice lens and part of the Cooke Speed Panchro Ser. II & III set that is quite valued these days. They are the lenses used by Kubrick, Cassavetes, and many others in the 1950's, 1960's and 1970's. They have a very distinct look about them, warm and a bit soft, and they make most actresses look beautiful. I would say, again depending on condition and whether you have front and rear caps, that lens could bring between $500 and $1500 also.

Finally, the Cooke Speed Panchro Ser. II 40mm lens is one of my favorites and also part of the Cooke Speed Panchro Ser. II & III set. I would say, again depending on condition and whether you have front and rear caps, that lens could bring between $500 and $1500 also.

If you decide you want to have either of the Cooke lenses serviced, then I would highly recommend sending them to Guy Genin at ZGC on the east coast. They are Cooke here in the States, and they do expert work on the older Speed Panchro lenses.

Hope that helps.

Best,
-Tim
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