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#1 Jim Feldspar

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 09:26 PM

have a job coming up with five business people at a rectangular table, two opposite each other and
one, the mediator, at the end and in between them. Going to use three cameras to cover many discussions.
This is for a business use DVD and we can start and stop a bit but mostly need to keep going. I would use
polecats to hang a bunch of small lights, maybe Chinese lanterns, but ceiling slopes into wall on one side
no place to put them.

the room is small about 20' by 16' by 9' high. there are a couple of skylights that are hot in the shot due to
sloped ceiling. Going to ND them.

coverage is going to be kind of tricky too. I might have two cameras on homemade dollies to be able to move a
bit behind people and shoot over their shoulders because people shift and talk at the same time, even seated.
The table is about 6' by 3' so people on each side tend to sit close by each other lean in to confer just when
somebody across from them is talking, which blocks camera that was shooting between them.

2nd floor location and low budget so can't use big lights or blast anything in from outside. would like a nice even
soft light. Bouncing open faced lights would be hard to control and heat up the room because would need more
wattage from farther away than smaller lights on polecats. lights on stands kind of difficult too because of shape
of ceiling would limit their height in certain spots and size of room would make it hard to hide them

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 25 July 2010 - 10:34 PM

Day interior? Can you provide a photo of the room?
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#3 Jim Feldspar

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 12:20 AM

Day interior? Can you provide a photo of the room?



yes it will be a day interior thanks although I thunk that I can't use skylight for light because they are low, in frame and would
be too hot, like this one here. this is only picture I have right now. reverse has a bit more room going back and red brick wall
behind it.

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#4 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 08:49 AM

That picture doesn't really show the whole room so it's hard to tell what to do...

I'd probably either put some white cards on the ceiling and bounce a Joker 800 Source-4 Leko into it, or two, or use an HMI in a Chimera ball if I had the height. Otherwise you have to gel the windows with 85/CTO to correct to tungsten.
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#5 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 09:56 AM

I'd look into trying to go with HMIs, if possible, as David Mentions, and also NDing the window down a bit, then using some small T fixtures, like 300 Arris, with 1/2 CTB as rim lights from low on the ground going up for some seperation on people close to the wall. Also, you can use mirrors to redirect light to a certain extent, to keep the head out of frame, e.g. mirror on an arm and knuckle bouncing the beam of say a Joker pointing down onto it, back up to the ceiling. Mirror can be low to the ground out of frame on the bottom or even in those sloped corners if the angles work out.
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#6 JD Hartman

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 12:22 PM

Maybe a small HMI in a pancake Chimera if you can get enough height. Or even a chicken coop. Could you possibly shoot the discussion at the table with several webcams? If conversation jumps from one side of the table to the other, will you be able to film both side of the conference table without ever having the opposite camera in frame? If it's only four participants, could you re-orient the table, use a smaller table, or a semi-circular table, so the mediator is on on side and all four are facing him or her? Seems like this is a situation where you, the mediator and the client, need to take control of the pace and logistics of the discussion/presentation.
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#7 Jim Feldspar

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 03:20 PM

That picture doesn't really show the whole room so it's hard to tell what to do...

I'd probably either put some white cards on the ceiling and bounce a Joker 800 Source-4 Leko into it, or two, or use an HMI in a Chimera ball if I had the height. Otherwise you have to gel the windows with 85/CTO to correct to tungsten.



I have put bounce cards up high by clipping them into a grip stand with arm and raising that. If I did bounce, going off a card would get
better color light than off the paint. Would/do you just use gaffers tape to put bounce cards up like that? I do have some large rolls of CTO
and ND so I could put a couple layers in to reduce by a couple stops and correct to tungsten.
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#8 Jim Feldspar

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 03:44 PM

Maybe a small HMI in a pancake Chimera if you can get enough height. Or even a chicken coop. Could you possibly shoot the discussion at the table with several webcams? If conversation jumps from one side of the table to the other, will you be able to film both side of the conference table without ever having the opposite camera in frame? If it's only four participants, could you re-orient the table, use a smaller table, or a semi-circular table, so the mediator is on on side and all four are facing him or her? Seems like this is a situation where you, the mediator and the client, need to take control of the pace and logistics of the discussion/presentation.



I like the chicken coop approach but not sure how I could get it up there with no place to hang it
or to put up a polecat or something. The seating arrangement is fixed by the client. I can spread the
people on the sides apart a but but that's all. Most likely shooting mini-DV or P2 with Panasonic cameras.

I'd look into trying to go with HMIs, if possible, as David Mentions, and also NDing the window down a bit, then using some small T fixtures, like 300 Arris, with 1/2 CTB as rim lights from low on the ground going up for some seperation on people close to the wall. Also, you can use mirrors to redirect light to a certain extent, to keep the head out of frame, e.g. mirror on an arm and knuckle bouncing the beam of say a Joker pointing down onto it, back up to the ceiling. Mirror can be low to the ground out of frame on the bottom or even in those sloped corners if the angles work out.
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By rim lights with this description, do you mean low on the ground and up to give an effect on the walls
like architectural lighting gives that scalloped look to buildings? For mirrors would you use the type that you
can get at a home improvement store? Would you fix them to a thin board or something and then put a baby
wallplate say on that for the grip arm to hold?

Here are a couple more pictures I could get of the room and set-up somenody else shot previously. Thanks for
your replies.
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#9 Jim Feldspar

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 03:59 PM

keep getting this message, can't upload pictures:

Used 105.73K of your 100K global upload quota (Max. single file size: 2MB)
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#10 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 04:28 PM

That has to do with how big each post can be (100K) i think.
And no, I mean rim in terms of backlighting talent (backlight/rim light, oft interchanged). and you can shoot up so it just hits into the ceiling w/o causing any problems.
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#11 Jim Feldspar

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Posted 26 July 2010 - 05:35 PM

That has to do with how big each post can be (100K) i think.
And no, I mean rim in terms of backlighting talent (backlight/rim light, oft interchanged). and you can shoot up so it just hits into the ceiling w/o causing any problems.


might be 100kb per thread b/c won't let me do in this post either thanks for your reply

that seems like a good way and different for me to get a rim/backlight effect. not sure if I can
use it in this case b/c cameras on each side might be between light on floor and talent but I will
give check that approach out soon.

I usually can make a plan fairly readily and maybe I'm just dull from lot of long hours this past month
but this shoot has me going back and forth between the restrictions on lighting and the tight spaces for
cameras to move and cover five people looking in different directions and talking I think that I will go
with one camera behind two people shooting over them, another matching camera behind the other two
people in the same respective position and a third that I could bring with no one to operate but
lock off on the mediator in the middle.

Every time I sketch this out though I end up with a problem crossing the line at some point.





Edited by Jim Feldspar, 26 July 2010 - 05:38 PM.

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#12 JD Hartman

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Posted 27 July 2010 - 12:26 PM

Tough to make suggestions without better pictures of the space. You could load the images onto one of the photo sharing sites and just post a link. Can you use a wall spreader to suspend the fixture over the table? If not, would screwing a baby plate to the ceiling (repairing the damage afterward) be out of the question? Maybe even two stands, in diagonally opposite corners of the room, with a length of speedrail between them?
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#13 Michael E Brown

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 10:01 AM

I think he's afraid of the low ceiling, so a wall spreader plus a fixture hanging might end up too low. I like the idea of bouncing off a white card - that can be taped to the ceiling with not much damage. If you are going to screw something in the ceiling, why not just screw some Kino fixtures up there? Thin, and your choice of daylight or tungsten lamps.

Don't forget that CTO+ND exists like Lee 207/208. You can correct the windows and knock them down an additional stop or two at the same time.
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#14 Jim Feldspar

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 01:43 PM

I think he's afraid of the low ceiling, so a wall spreader plus a fixture hanging might end up too low. I like the idea of bouncing off a white card - that can be taped to the ceiling with not much damage. If you are going to screw something in the ceiling, why not just screw some Kino fixtures up there? Thin, and your choice of daylight or tungsten lamps.

Don't forget that CTO+ND exists like Lee 207/208. You can correct the windows and knock them down an additional stop or two at the same time.




yes the ceiling is low so getting wide enough to see everybody gets the frame up high as well, to where it would
be close to seeing lights if not what's holding them. plus the ceiling slopes on one side so can't use a polecat and
haven't used a wall spreader like that with an angled piece of wood. does anybody? wouldn't want to above people
for sure. too low budget to put wall plate in ceiling and repair afterward but speed rail and stands is good suggestion
if I can get it out of shot

shoot is next week, going back tomorrow to see location again and will take some pictures, thank you for help


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#15 JD Hartman

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Posted 09 August 2010 - 06:08 PM

Jim how did it work out? Was was your final choice for the table lighting?
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#16 Jim Feldspar

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Posted 12 August 2010 - 12:23 AM

Jim how did it work out? Was was your final choice for the table lighting?



hi thanks for asking. I made up a bunch of sockets and got some Chinese lanterns and 250w bulbs. I planned to hang them from a polecat
mounted between two grip stands but couldn't maneuver both stands out of all three cameras frames. ended up adding a couple arms to grip
stands and hanging lanterns off of arms extended out above table. that worked good and used some baby fresnels with gel to accent walls.
cut/corrected windows with ND/CTO

booked a 1200w and 575w HMI but had to cut due to budget. what we did worked out and at lower wattage which was good because
we were in there all day and it was hot! hot inside, hot outside

would have liked to do some things differentl, closer to recommendations on here but we made the day and got a lot of material.
with the small room, sloping ceiling, five people looking across the table in different directions, skylights and ten scenes it was a
challenging day but we wrapped on time with happy clients

although could not take all advice given on here I have to say that it was all appreciated and helpful and that being able to discuss it
and hear opinions was a big help in figuring out this job and in ultimately getting it done

thank you all



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Visual Products

Aerial Filmworks

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