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filming live band w/new Ekatchrome 100D


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#1 jason duncan

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 07:32 PM

Hello all,

I plan on filming my buddy's band early next month with the new 100D. I have a Canon 1014xls & 814xls. They are playing at 8pm so it will still be light outside but they will be in a pavilion with litte light coming in. I know my exposure will read in the red/below 1.4 f stops. Do you recommend using the manual exposure mode and cranking it all the way open or using auto exposure and changing my exposure compensation dial to two-thirds or even one complete f-stop? I've seen Youtube videos with other people filming bands in bars and am amazed at how good their exposure looks and they were not even using a "xl" camera or negative stock like 500T. Does changing the exposure dial add grain?

Any help would be much appreciated. I've already filmed these guys at a bar with these cameras using Tri-x and the image was way too dark and unusable.
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#2 Chris Burke

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 07:47 PM

Hello all,

I plan on filming my buddy's band early next month with the new 100D. I have a Canon 1014xls & 814xls. They are playing at 8pm so it will still be light outside but they will be in a pavilion with litte light coming in. I know my exposure will read in the red/below 1.4 f stops. Do you recommend using the manual exposure mode and cranking it all the way open or using auto exposure and changing my exposure compensation dial to two-thirds or even one complete f-stop? I've seen Youtube videos with other people filming bands in bars and am amazed at how good their exposure looks and they were not even using a "xl" camera or negative stock like 500T. Does changing the exposure dial add grain?

Any help would be much appreciated. I've already filmed these guys at a bar with these cameras using Tri-x and the image was way too dark and unusable.



well you sort of answered your own question. Tri-X is notched for 200 ASA, ektachrome is 100 ASA, so you will run into issues. I would shoot almost wide open at a slower frame rate, say 9 fps. Also, talk to the band, do they mind very grainy footage, some people love it. If they are into it, push as much as you can, talk to the lab, maybe this is two stops. Also, keep in mind that the color balance is going to be very warm. Any reason why you aren't using the 500T?


c
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#3 jason duncan

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 09:08 PM

well you sort of answered your own question. Tri-X is notched for 200 ASA, ektachrome is 100 ASA, so you will run into issues. I would shoot almost wide open at a slower frame rate, say 9 fps. Also, talk to the band, do they mind very grainy footage, some people love it. If they are into it, push as much as you can, talk to the lab, maybe this is two stops. Also, keep in mind that the color balance is going to be very warm. Any reason why you aren't using the 500T?


c


The reason I'm not using 500T is I have a guy that go through for my telecine, and I'm pretty sure his Workprinter does reversals only. Although he did scan a negative and "flipped" the image with ok results. I was thinking I need to shoot at 24 fps to keep the sound in sync? The band probably won't care about the grain, but I will, so are you saying 500T is my best option?
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#4 Chris Burke

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Posted 28 July 2010 - 09:30 PM

The reason I'm not using 500T is I have a guy that go through for my telecine, and I'm pretty sure his Workprinter does reversals only. Although he did scan a negative and "flipped" the image with ok results. I was thinking I need to shoot at 24 fps to keep the sound in sync? The band probably won't care about the grain, but I will, so are you saying 500T is my best option?



yes, the 500T is your best option by a large margin. It has a lot of underexposure latitude, where as the 7285 has very little. I think it is the 500T has about 9 stops of dynamic latitude where the 100D has at most 3 stops. 500T with the cameras you said you are going to use set to auto will give you a very good image. Keep in mind that there has to be light on the band. I have and still do shoot many rock bands. Many of them like it really dark. This will be a problem. I don't know the situation with when you shot Tri=X, but I have shot it in a rock club and got great results. there was almost no light, so I turned on what ever I could on stage, back lit them, did what ever I could to get light into the frame, then pushed the stock two stops and shot at 9 fps with a fast lens and a 220 degree shutter. The band loved it. Super grainy black and white. The 500t is not as grainy and practically sees in the dark. Lots of labs want your business, it isn't that expensive for a direct to drive flat pass transfer of Super 8 neg in HD.
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#5 andy oliver

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 01:57 AM

Although difficult to focus, any mileage in using a canon 310xl? even for your bar scenes, worth trying a 310 with tri-x and cover up the metering tube so the camera iris is wide open all the time. The canon reads 100d ok, the zoom range is very limiting and lacks split screen focusing...
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#6 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 03:46 AM

If there's not much light coming into the pavilion, your going to have to shoot wide open and keep your fingers crossed in hopes of a usable exposure. I remember barely getting by with the old VNF 125ASA Ekta, a band under a tent in mid day overcast.
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#7 jason duncan

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Posted 29 July 2010 - 02:42 PM

If there's not much light coming into the pavilion, your going to have to shoot wide open and keep your fingers crossed in hopes of a usable exposure. I remember barely getting by with the old VNF 125ASA Ekta, a band under a tent in mid day overcast.


Yeah, I had my fingers crossed at the tune of $200 even with Tri-x, but I didn't have it wide open though...maybe I'll save the 100D for outside stuff and break down and buy 500T for this event. Thanks guys for your help. Much appreciated!
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#8 Chris Burke

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 10:09 PM

Although difficult to focus, any mileage in using a canon 310xl? even for your bar scenes, worth trying a 310 with tri-x and cover up the metering tube so the camera iris is wide open all the time. The canon reads 100d ok, the zoom range is very limiting and lacks split screen focusing...


doesn't this camera have an insanely fast lens? Something like ƒ1.1?
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#9 Christopher Curry

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 10:01 AM

Hey Jason, if you can recall our PM discussions earlier this year about filming bands live with Super 8, I've used V3 500T for a live gig music video.

Since then I had it transferred but Uppsala Bildteknik in Sweden and have finally only just started editing the footage. I'm quite amazed at how good V3 500T looks. Having also filmed with Tri-x and Ektachrome 64T pushed to 160ASA in the same scenario there is just no comparison. The grain is much finer and the image clearer than I expected. Though, I was lucky that the lighting at the gig was quite a strong and professional setup. Your results may vary depending on your situation but 500T is easily your best bet.

I just used auto-exposure. There was really no significant problems with under, over, or wavering exposure except for the when they suddenly activated the stage lights at the start of the song. One of the cameras pulled it's exposure down quickly to compensate and went to darkness for a second but it really isn't a big deal. All of the cameras held up steady with their auto exposure no sweat even though there were lights continuously fading and flashing about during the song. The camera meters will probably only freak out when you get a sudden overall boost or cut of your main lighting source. If the marquee lighting setup is weak then it might be worth considering locking the cameras down for highest exposure possible, best to assess this before the gig if possible when other bands are playing and have a look what your meters are reading through the lens.

Even though it's negative film, the image is still warm and colours are really punchy so I wouldn't get hung up about it not being reversal. The telecine service at Uppsala Bildteknik is great value for money so I think it's quite worthwhile to skip the work printer option if you want the best results for your project.

When I get some decent time off work I'll be able to finish editing my video and upload the results for you to see.
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#10 Wooda McNiven

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Posted 04 August 2010 - 03:31 PM

Lots of labs want your business, it isn't that expensive for a direct to drive flat pass transfer of Super 8 neg in HD.


Chris, any recommendations on labs? Also, please explain 'flat pass transfer' (to date, I'm just a reversal shooter).
Thanks!
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#11 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 10:35 PM

Hey Jason, if you can recall our PM discussions earlier this year about filming bands live with Super 8, I've used V3 500T for a live gig music video.

Since then I had it transferred but Uppsala Bildteknik in Sweden and have finally only just started editing the footage. I'm quite amazed at how good V3 500T looks. Having also filmed with Tri-x and Ektachrome 64T pushed to 160ASA in the same scenario there is just no comparison. The grain is much finer and the image clearer than I expected. Though, I was lucky that the lighting at the gig was quite a strong and professional setup. Your results may vary depending on your situation but 500T is easily your best bet.


I had the same experience with Vision 2 500T with a transfer I did at Spectra Film and Video in North Hollywood CA. The film just has this super sharp, fine grain with very nice color reproduction. May I presume that Vision 3 500T is even better?
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#12 Christopher Curry

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Posted 07 August 2010 - 02:57 AM

I had the same experience with Vision 2 500T with a transfer I did at Spectra Film and Video in North Hollywood CA. The film just has this super sharp, fine grain with very nice color reproduction. May I presume that Vision 3 500T is even better?


I've never used V2. V3 was most almost literally released the day I started shopping for film for my project. It really is a brillant stock for indoor live concert footage. A dream come true for indie film makers dabbling in the music scene. Now that V3 200T and 100D are available things are even better considering the high-quality and affordable telecine + home NLE options available. Even though Super 8 was more far more widespread 30 years ago, there's never been a more useful time to use it for actual music videos.
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