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Need help with possible stupid question (35mm adaptor issues)


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#1 James Byrne

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 04:22 PM

Hope this question is ok to post here. I have looked through the forum for the answer to my question, but it seems I'm the only one to ask it.

I have built my own depth of field adaptor for a Sony Z1.

I am a technical n00b. Really I am, so bear with me. I built the adaptor with a friend of mine who is much more technically able than me. We used a tutorial on the internet.

My problem is now, that the image is inverted. I have read up on this and I do know that because it is an optical lens, when the light goes into the lens it is bent so inverts the image. In a camera there is something to flip the image back over so it is the right way up in the LCD screen and viewfinder.

What I am asking for, is if anyone has any tips on how to not invert the image? Or even to invert it again?
I really dont know how to solve this problem. I do have a few ideas.
Can I turn off the thing that flips the image in the camera?
Can I put another lens into the adaptor to flip the image again? (to put it right)
I also though, a really cheap and easy way to solve this problem would be fix a small mirror to the top of the view finder so at least I could see the image the right way up.

What do people think?

Just so you know, I do know this is a silly question. I do know I shouldn't have myself in this situation in the first place. And I do know that some of the people here are far above this problem. haha. But I am a student, Im learning. PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!

Edited by James Byrne, 30 July 2010 - 04:24 PM.

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#2 John Sprung

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Posted 30 July 2010 - 05:06 PM

The easiest thing would be to build your DIY rig so that the camera mounts to it up side down. The signal it records or sends down a wire would then be right side up, and you could just run a wire to a monitor to see it.



-- J.S.
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#3 James Byrne

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 03:25 PM

The easiest thing would be to build your DIY rig so that the camera mounts to it up side down. The signal it records or sends down a wire would then be right side up, and you could just run a wire to a monitor to see it.



-- J.S.



Are you sure this would be easiest way? I mean, are you suggesting to build something so that the camera is upside down?
It 'sounds' really really difficult. We plan to do steadycam shots, standard tripod shots, tracking shots, etc.
I would not trust myself to use something like that, I don't know why, it just doesn't sound safe.

Since I suggested this before and you didn't say yes....I am guessing not, BUT, would it really not be easier to put another small lens inside the adaptor so it inverts the image again? I mean, its a DIY adapter so it all screws apart really easily. Could I not just put it an optical lens?
Or would this mess up the image? Or would it simply just not work at all?

Oh and by the way, thank you so much for your reply at all. I am in DESPERATE need of help and you were the only one to reply, so thank you.

James
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#4 Matt Read

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Posted 31 July 2010 - 07:50 PM

Some of the more expensive off-the-shelf 35mm adapters use a prism to invert the image a second time so that it appears correct in camera. There might be a way to incorporate something like this into your design.

The one time I have used a 35mm adapter, it was a cheaper off-the-shelf type and it did not have a prism to invert the image. We simply attached a 5" monitor upside-down to the camera or tripod and operated off of that. It worked, but was not an ideal situation.

If you cannot afford a monitor, then you will either have to mount the camera upside-down, as John suggested, or simply deal with looking at an inverted image until you get to post. An upside-down rig should not actually be that difficult. Try searching the web for examples of what other people have done.
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#5 James Byrne

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 05:47 PM

Some of the more expensive off-the-shelf 35mm adapters use a prism to invert the image a second time so that it appears correct in camera. There might be a way to incorporate something like this into your design.

The one time I have used a 35mm adapter, it was a cheaper off-the-shelf type and it did not have a prism to invert the image. We simply attached a 5" monitor upside-down to the camera or tripod and operated off of that. It worked, but was not an ideal situation.

If you cannot afford a monitor, then you will either have to mount the camera upside-down, as John suggested, or simply deal with looking at an inverted image until you get to post. An upside-down rig should not actually be that difficult. Try searching the web for examples of what other people have done.



Hey. thank you for your reply. I looked into the flip prism thing. The Letus 35mm adaptors have a piece of hardware just after the achromat lens that flips the image. But A, I'm not sure if one of these would fit my personal adaptor and B, they are very expensive, especially if I get it wrong.

After looking at this, I came across a phrase, 'Flip Hack'. You simply put a magnet behind the LCD screen and it blocks the sensor that flips the image naturally. My only problem with this is, I can't image it is healthy for the camera. I have googled 'Z1 flip hack problems' etc etc, and so far, no one has said anything about it going wrong. All you have to do is make sure you do not close the LCD screen with the magnet still attached, apparently that does break it.

What do you think to that? I mean, it would be a god send if all I have to do is put a cheap magnet behind the LCD screen to fix it. It seems too good to be true.

Cheers for you replies by the way, you do not know how much I appreciate it. We film in less than 2 weeks and I REALLY want this to work, work well, and be easy to use.
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#6 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 03 August 2010 - 06:08 PM

I'd much suggest mounting upside-down which is guaranteed not to break the camera so long as it's secured properly -v- putting magnets next to a magnetic system (the tape) and an expensive viewing port, or just to mount an monitor up-side-down. I picked up a 5" LCD TV with a video input for $75 from BH used.. which has batteries that are rechargeable, just to get an image to people who want to see TTL, pick one of them up and flip it over, then op off of it. Simple and effective.

Any lenses you put inside of the adapter will take away more light (which the adapter already does) hence needing more light in front of the lens, and also change something called the MTF (modular transfer function) effectively reducing over-all resolution. Most people don't mind that as it takes some of the "edge" off of HD, but you must keep it in mind. Also it will make your adapter heavier and run the risk of either misalignment on the lens, or ripping it's mountings (or the lens's) depending on how it's built and whether or not it secures to rails as a letus etc does.
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#7 Matt Read

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Posted 11 August 2010 - 12:14 AM

After looking at this, I came across a phrase, 'Flip Hack'. You simply put a magnet behind the LCD screen and it blocks the sensor that flips the image naturally.


I think putting a magnet near the camera is a terrible idea. You have no idea how the magnet will actually affect the camera without doing it. The worst case scenario is you permanently break your camera.

Though using an upside-down monitor or camera will be more time consuming and expensive than the magnet idea, you know that either will work and be safe for all the equipment involved. Just stick with one of those.
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