Jump to content


Photo

DIY - Reloadable Super-8 cartridges


  • Please log in to reply
14 replies to this topic

#1 Thomas Larang

Thomas Larang
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 20 posts
  • Student

Posted 11 August 2010 - 08:44 AM

I recently started to develop my own phootage at home, both out of curiosity and of me being sort of a miser :) After this I started looking for other fun ways of cutting cost with filming super-8, and one of them was to buy raw super-8 film on large rolls from e.g. Witter and load cartridges with it. Since reloadable cartridges cost (maybe not that much though) I started testing cutting up old used cartridges and re-use them.

On my homepage you can see how I did this.
http://holymanta.com/super8.html

Cheers!
/Thomas
  • 0

#2 Andries Molenaar

Andries Molenaar
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 671 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Amsterdam

Posted 11 August 2010 - 08:55 AM

Better check that the electrical tape is not letting through any light. In my experience it is not. :) Certainly when it has to keep light out for weeks or months on end.
  • 0

#3 Thomas Larang

Thomas Larang
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 20 posts
  • Student

Posted 11 August 2010 - 10:28 AM

Exactly, I wouldn't recommend that anyone should store their cartridges in the open, just as I wouldn't recommend anyone to store their regular Kodak/Fuji/Kahl stock out of their protective bag in the open either. My plans are to load the cartridges, shot within a few days and develop them at home as quick as possible. That should eliminate tape coming loose with time causing light leak. Plus put two bits of tape parallell to eachother, other than the pictures were I just split a bit of tape in half.
  • 0

#4 Richard Tuohy

Richard Tuohy
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 482 posts
  • Other
  • Daylesford, Australia

Posted 11 August 2010 - 08:26 PM

hello tom,
well done. I have done this too, but with cartridges that weren't as glued tight as Kodak ones seem to be. I also purchased a carton of empty cartridges from Kodak for loading ds8 into. I gave up on that as too time consuming for commercial purposes. I still have empty cartridges. Want to buy some? Aus$3.50 each. Much easier to re-use than glued cartridges.
email me at richard@nanolab.com.au if you are interested.
cheers,
richard
  • 0

#5 Thomas Larang

Thomas Larang
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 20 posts
  • Student

Posted 12 August 2010 - 07:08 AM

Thanks for the offer Richard, I'll thnk about it but I'm also starting to enjoy this little endeavour. I printed my own labels today to put on my cartridges. Again, you can check this out on my website.
  • 0

#6 Craig Madokoro

Craig Madokoro
  • Guests

Posted 20 August 2010 - 02:54 AM

Thanks for the offer Richard, I'll thnk about it but I'm also starting to enjoy this little endeavour. I printed my own labels today to put on my cartridges. Again, you can check this out on my website.


Hi Thomas,

Have you ever reloaded a Super 8 Sound cartridge? I have some Kodachrome Super 8 Sound film in 200' cartridges, but there are very few cameras that can take that size cartridge. I wonder if they were loaded into 50' cartridges more people could use them?
  • 0

#7 Thomas Larang

Thomas Larang
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 20 posts
  • Student

Posted 20 August 2010 - 03:04 AM

Hi Thomas,

Have you ever reloaded a Super 8 Sound cartridge? I have some Kodachrome Super 8 Sound film in 200' cartridges, but there are very few cameras that can take that size cartridge. I wonder if they were loaded into 50' cartridges more people could use them?


Hi Craig.

Unfortunately I have no experience Whatsoever with sound cartridges or sound film. Isn't sound film a bit wider to fit in a sound strip? In that case I doubt you can fit it to a non sound system without having to slit of the sound strip.

/Thomas
  • 0

#8 Andries Molenaar

Andries Molenaar
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 671 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Amsterdam

Posted 20 August 2010 - 07:32 AM

Unloading 200ft is a bit tricky. It is not as straightforward as it may seem.

If you load the film in 50ft Kaccema or any thing else you can of course expose them. Dwayne's can process the film from the core so that you don't have to send in the cartridges. After return you can record sound on the striping.

If you would load the film into sound S8 cartridges you can use the striping for recording.

Considering that there are considerable offerings of S8 sound cartridges you may be better off selling the 200ft as such. Or get yourself a 200ft enabled camera and shoot the film yourself. There are some 15 models of 200ft cameras.

Better hurry as the processing is only available until end of 2010! :)

Edited by Andries Molenaar, 20 August 2010 - 07:34 AM.

  • 0

#9 Mark Dunn

Mark Dunn
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2420 posts
  • Other
  • London

Posted 20 August 2010 - 08:52 AM

Hi Craig.

Unfortunately I have no experience Whatsoever with sound cartridges or sound film. Isn't sound film a bit wider to fit in a sound strip? In that case I doubt you can fit it to a non sound system without having to slit of the sound strip.

/Thomas

All 8mm. film is 8mm. wide. The main stripe goes opposite the sprocket, outside the frame. A narrower balance stripe goes outside the sprocket, for even winding. Some projectors can record on it but the sound quality is pretty awful. Use of it was the only way that Super-8 could offer stereophonic sound.
  • 0

#10 Andries Molenaar

Andries Molenaar
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 671 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Amsterdam

Posted 20 August 2010 - 10:29 AM

Hi Craig.

Unfortunately I have no experience Whatsoever with sound cartridges or sound film. Isn't sound film a bit wider to fit in a sound strip? In that case I doubt you can fit it to a non sound system without having to slit of the sound strip.

/Thomas



The striping is on the margins of the same film of 8mm.
A 'wide'strip on the outside at the perf side and 'small' width on the unused margin on the unperfed side.
  • 0

#11 Martin Baumgarten

Martin Baumgarten
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 185 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Plattsburgh, New York U.S.A.

Posted 21 August 2010 - 07:59 PM

Hi, I found your posting quite interesting. I have been reloading Super 8 cartridges since 1981, both silent and sound. And yes, those darn 200 footers can be downloaded into 50ft segments and loaded into either sound or silent cartridges; as I have done this many many times over the years. In fact, I still have the very first 2 silent cartridges I have ever reloaded, and have used them about a dozen times each, and it shows that these cartridges are tougher than what many give them credit for. Actually, the 50ft sound cartridges come apart much easier and with less residual damage; one reason for my having saved hundreds of them for an eventual creation of sound-stripe film one day. I have experimented with this project but put it on a backburner for the time being. It would only be single-stripe (main track) when I get back to it again. Some customers wanted the FujiChrome Single 8 films in Super 8 and vice versa, especially the sound films, since FUJI ceased making their sound film about a couple years after KODAK. Another advantage of reloading the cartridges is that it's very possible to reload already exposed Super 8 film so that it can be exposed again; such as for making split-screen effects, or burn-in titles into background shots, and for other specialty purposes. I've done this for some of those film competition participants, whereby the original film has to have everything shot on it (such as the Straight-8 one in England). These days, so many working with Super 8 end up doing all their editing digitally so with their final project ending up on video anyhow, all their effects and title work is done in the computer. That's a far cry from how terrific a projected film appears! Especially in CinemaScope, and with dual-track or stereophonic sound. A filmmaker I knew some years back also shot his films with quadraphonic sound...true surround sound, and in Widescreen. I've worked with those Russian cartridges also, and while novel, have found it just easier and more practical for me to reuse the KODAK ones. I can salvage better than 50% of the silent ones, and 90% of the sound ones. I've sealed them up with high grade electrical tape, the type that doesn't leave any sticky residue behind; sealing the seams on both sides, and then a piece of tape around the complete side of the cart to secure that, and then a piece of clear good packing tape around the rear end of the cartridge to allow it to slide in and out of side loading cameras easily without any risk to the integrity. I have also sealed them with model cement and super glue....model cement works best and is slow since they have to be clamped to get a really secure seal. Also have designed custom cartridge labels for the various odd film types I've custom loaded. ----- Anyhow, just thought I'd input my 2 cents here, since this is something I do often enough here. ---- On a side note: any KODACHROME sound films that don't get used before the lab shuts down the K-14 process, can still be processed as B&W...either as reversal or negative. While this can be done for silent films also, it allows some extended longevity to any unused KMA sound films. Kind regards to all posters here, Martin Baumgarten
  • 0

#12 Andries Molenaar

Andries Molenaar
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 671 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Amsterdam

Posted 25 August 2010 - 04:18 AM

---- On a side note: any KODACHROME sound films that don't get used before the lab shuts down the K-14 process, can still be processed as B&W...either as reversal or negative. While this can be done for silent films also, it allows some extended longevity to any unused KMA sound films. Kind regards to all posters here, Martin Baumgarten



Thanks for your comment. Glad to have you posting here :)

Do you have a recommendation on the procedure and chemistry with times for processing the K40 into BW.
It would be nice to do something useful with films which don't make it before dec 2010

And what with really old K40 which would process into faint pink images with K-14.
Can these be used with some reduced exposure?
  • 0

#13 Alvin Breathwaite

Alvin Breathwaite

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts
  • Producer

Posted 25 August 2010 - 02:43 PM

Thanks for your comment. Glad to have you posting here :)

Do you have a recommendation on the procedure and chemistry with times for processing the K40 into BW.
It would be nice to do something useful with films which don't make it before dec 2010

And what with really old K40 which would process into faint pink images with K-14.
Can these be used with some reduced exposure?

Dear Mr. Martin Baumgarten do you or any body knows how to replace or dose it matter a recording indecator lamp? It it the Exciter lamp fuse?
  • 0

#14 Friedemann Wachsmuth

Friedemann Wachsmuth
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 122 posts
  • Other
  • Hamburg, Germany

Posted 26 August 2010 - 07:25 AM

Just because I posted this somewhere else a minute ago and fits here, this is a quick DIY guide for altering cartridge notches easily to make the camera recognize the actual film stock used.

The (cellphone-)photos show making an adapter to close the Tungsten notch, altering the ASA notch width works the same way though. All you need is some oil/vaseline and some solid ribbon epoxy

1: Lubricate the cartridge where the ribbon epoxy will go. Below I used too much oil, use a Q-Tip or so to remove it. Vaseline should work too.
Posted Image

2: Knead the ribbon epoxy well and fill it in the gap. Make sure there are no overlaps thus the cartridge does not get bigger than it was before. Stick a paperclip (or that Q-Tip) in the glue to make removing the part later on easier.
Posted Image

3: The finished Notch-Closer, ready after few minutes. Fits perfectly. Before full hardening, you can model the result with an x-acto-knife or so quite well to make it fit even better.
Posted Image

To alter the ASA notch width, do the same but shorten the resulting piece per Notch Ruler.

This works great in cameras that do not allow manual exposure override.
  • 0

#15 Martin Baumgarten

Martin Baumgarten
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 185 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Plattsburgh, New York U.S.A.

Posted 27 August 2010 - 07:56 PM

[1]. {a}. For B&W Reversal processing of KODACHROME 40A (K-14) films that have been cold stored and thus should be as normal, they can be normally processed in the older B&W Reversal Formulas (prior to the current D-94a & Permaganate Bleach) as a starting point. You might have to increase First Developer time anywhere from 1-2 minutes to get your density correct. The matter isn't the processing, but the darn Remjet Anti-halation backing removal. This is best done after processing is complete. Make a mix of 2-4 Tablespoons household BORAX per Liter of Water at 70 F to 80 F. The film should be soaked in this solution for at least 5 to 10 minutes, and then slowly wiped off a foot at a time, using a solution soaked Photo-grade Sponge or Soft Cotton Flannel Cloth. Make sure you frequently rinse out the sponge or cloth with fresh water since it will rapidly accumulate the remjet coating. I recommend setting up a Film Rewinder on a board and clamp that to a table or lab sink to allow film takeup. Once the film has been all wiped off, you may want to go over it one more time running it between a set of film rewinds mounted on a board, with a tray of solution and wiping sponge/cloth, to get any remaining traces of the remjet coating. --- Then, reload the film onto the processing reel (which you first cleaned off using an old soft bristle toothbrush and solution) for proper rewashing/Washing and then your Final Rinse (KODAK Photo Flo or similar) prior to hanging it up to dry. For spot free drying, you can wipe the film off using a Photo Chamois slowly as you wind the film onto your Film Drying Rack, or loop it onto a vinyl clothsline emulsion side facing upward.

{b}. For those old films, you will have to experiment, but generally very old KODACHROME films should be Negative processed, and best done using a higher contrast technical Developer such as D-19. Otherwise the negative won't have any tone separation at all and would just be a flat muddy mess to try and work with. Reversal processing such old films has the same problem as B&W Reversal films......totally flat, no contrast, and/or all washed out images regardless of adjustment time cutting in the First Developer. Such old films, along with old KODACHROME-II (K-12) films done in D-19 as a B&W Negative, with the First Developer time cut to 2 to 3 minutes and the Temperature at the minimum of 66 F for the entire process, will yield fair to dense negative images, but with sufficient contrast to transfer a pretty good image to video. This is ONLY recommended for such old films that were filmed on years ago. If you attempt to film on such old film, the extreme age fog in it will prevent you from any acceptable image capture.

[2]. Regarding the ELMO SC-18 projector recording indicator lamp, there isn't any exciter lamp fuse or any exciter lamp at all UNLESS you have the rare Magnetic/Optical version. Most of these projectors are magnetic recording/playback only. Check the fuses in the machine, should be 3 of them, with the machine unplugged of course....also check the continuity of the lamp itself to make sure it hasn't blown out. If the lamp is fine and fuses are fine, the problem is somewhere in the power supply to the lamp. You or someone adept at electrical work, can easily rewire the lamp to a power supply line coming off the main transformer so that it will come on when the projector is plugged into the mains, as it normally would.

[3]. The cartridge notch epoxy method is very ingenius! I so often just use bits of old cartridges and Super Glue them in after cutting them to fit, with a small plastic piece behind it acting as a brace from it to the back wall. I've had to reset the Metering Notch also on ones where I had custom slit down DS8 KODACHROME 25 Daylight or reloaded FUJI Single-8 R25 film into Super 8 cartridges. For those films being used in a manually ISO set camera such as the BEAULIEUs, the metering notch is not a problem. I also cut out a filter notch on all those cartridges that don't have one, so I can make use of the internal filter if I choose to. For example: KODAK used to have the filter notch on PLUS-X 7276 films and then did away with it on the 7265 version. It's nice to have the Filter Notch on both Plus-X and Tri-X films, since it saves having to add a medium yellow or orange filter to the camera lens. Black & White films are best shot in Daylight with such filters to render the tones correct and absorb excessive blue which helps darken skies and make the clouds stand out, and avoid complete white to the sky...giving it some shades of gray relative to exposure and how the sky actually appears. Anyhow, it also saves darkening the viewfinder by using the internal filter for that purpose. I often use an ND6 Filter on the camera lens when shooting with TRI-X 7266 in Daylight, so in combination with the builtin 85 Filter, the effective filmspeed is now down to a managable ISO 25 or thereabouts allowing better depth-of-field and exposure control. Or use other filters for exposure and contrast control. --- While I'm on this side topic here.....Plus-X 7265 processed normally in the older reversal formula is still ISO 50, not ISO 100. So it can still be rated at ISO 50 for those processing the film themselves. The filmspeed gain has a lot to do with the process now, as it was all a compromise so that labs would stop using heavy metal Bleach in lieu of the safer Permaganate Bleach. This is all topic unto itself.

Hope this clears some things up.
Best regards,
Martin Baumgarten
  • 0


Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Metropolis Post

Abel Cine

Willys Widgets

Tai Audio

Glidecam

FJS International, LLC

CineLab

Technodolly

The Slider

Ritter Battery

Broadcast Solutions Inc

CineTape

Opal

rebotnix Technologies

Rig Wheels Passport

Paralinx LLC

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Aerial Filmworks

Wooden Camera

Visual Products

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Rig Wheels Passport

Aerial Filmworks

Opal

Metropolis Post

Visual Products

Abel Cine

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Wooden Camera

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

rebotnix Technologies

CineTape

CineLab

FJS International, LLC

Ritter Battery

Glidecam

Willys Widgets

The Slider

Tai Audio

Paralinx LLC

Technodolly