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Filming 16mm for the first time


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#1 Sebastian Cepeda

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 07:34 AM

Hi everyone,

as the title says I'll be filming for the first time with my new Eclair ACL II 16mm.
Im planing on doing a small short film.

I plan on getting an Nikon to C Mount adapter to being able of using my Nikon Primes to film with. This shouldn't be any problem right?

Now to my real question, the short film plays only in a bathroom with white tiles, mirror and a shower. So everything will be white.
I'm guessing on wich stock to go.
As I don't have the location yet, Im going to be searching for something without windows so that I can go for a Tungsten stock.
Now my question, everything will be white and as we know white reflects a lot, so I thought of getting kind of a slow stock, I don't know maybe something around 250 or even 500 ISO. What do you think about it?
I dont want to have a fast stock because otherwise I think it will get overexposed to easily.

But as said before this will be my first time shoting on film. Would you recomend this stock for my purpose or prefer to go with another one?

I guess I'll be using some 1x1 Litepanels because of the size of the bathroom. I may have 2 or 3 of them. What do you think?

It would be great to hear your advice.

Thanks a lot in advance.
Best Regards
Sebastian

Edited by Sebastian Cepeda, 20 September 2010 - 07:35 AM.

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#2 Bill DiPietra

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 08:58 AM

Hi everyone,

as the title says I'll be filming for the first time with my new Eclair ACL II 16mm.
Im planing on doing a small short film.

I plan on getting an Nikon to C Mount adapter to being able of using my Nikon Primes to film with. This shouldn't be any problem right?

Now to my real question, the short film plays only in a bathroom with white tiles, mirror and a shower. So everything will be white.
I'm guessing on wich stock to go.
As I don't have the location yet, Im going to be searching for something without windows so that I can go for a Tungsten stock.
Now my question, everything will be white and as we know white reflects a lot, so I thought of getting kind of a slow stock, I don't know maybe something around 250 or even 500 ISO. What do you think about it?
I dont want to have a fast stock because otherwise I think it will get overexposed to easily.

But as said before this will be my first time shoting on film. Would you recomend this stock for my purpose or prefer to go with another one?

I guess I'll be using some 1x1 Litepanels because of the size of the bathroom. I may have 2 or 3 of them. What do you think?

It would be great to hear your advice.

Thanks a lot in advance.
Best Regards
Sebastian



Maybe I misunderstood, but are you trying to get your lenses from your 35mm still camera to mount onto the 16mm camera? Unless there is some adapter out there that I never heard of, that won't work. There are plenty of adapters in existence (e.g., PL mount to Bayonet mount) but the lens needs to be fitted for and match the format you plan to shoot on (16mm, 35mm, etc.)

As for your main question, that setting will create a lot of bounce, so I wouldn't go with anything above 250 ASA. Then again, how much is the wattage on each Litepanel? Those fixtures look a bit cumbersome, too. So you need to take that into account. You want to avoid having the lights in-frame and it sounds like you will be shooting in rather cramped quarters. Don't forget the mirror...that's a reflection you will constantly need to check for in the viewfinder.

Your best bet is to come up with a lighting diagram for each shot. If you have the time and money, I would shoot a few tests. You also don't want to have a film that is a complete "white-out." Keeping a window in-frame and gelling it might give the shots a bit more character since the audience would have a few different hues to look at should their eyes begin to hurt. ;)

Good luck with the shoot.
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#3 Sebastian Cepeda

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 09:27 AM

Hi thanks for the quick reply, now to see if I got it :)


Maybe I misunderstood, but are you trying to get your lenses from your 35mm still camera to mount onto the 16mm camera? Unless there is some adapter out there that I never heard of, that won't work. There are plenty of adapters in existence (e.g., PL mount to Bayonet mount) but the lens needs to be fitted for and match the format you plan to shoot on (16mm, 35mm, etc.)


I will convert my ACL II to s16mm and I saw on the internet that if you use 35mm lenses on this camera you dont have to match them or do anything like that...f.e. a 35mm would still be a 35mm lens, so is this a false statement? And if I would use some 35mm PL lenses, would it still be the same?


As for your main question, that setting will create a lot of bounce, so I wouldn't go with anything above 250 ASA. Then again, how much is the wattage on each Litepanel? Those fixtures look a bit cumbersome, too. So you need to take that into account. You want to avoid having the lights in-frame and it sounds like you will be shooting in rather cramped quarters. Don't forget the mirror...that's a reflection you will constantly need to check for in the viewfinder.

Your best bet is to come up with a lighting diagram for each shot. If you have the time and money, I would shoot a few tests. You also don't want to have a film that is a complete "white-out." Keeping a window in-frame and gelling it might give the shots a bit more character since the audience would have a few different hues to look at should their eyes begin to hurt. ;)

Good luck with the shoot.


Thats what I thought, but a good thing is, the Bathroom won't be thaaat small, maybe around 5m by 3m or so, so the mirror wont be the whole time on the image, we will be more on the shower than on the mirror side.
I also thought of showing one or two towels with another color instead of white, so that we get more hues to look at.

The short movie will be also pretty short at around 5min time.
I though of making a test and to save some money get a cheap sd dvd transfer, do you think that would be enough to see if it works out?

Thanks again for the information... :D

Edited by Sebastian Cepeda, 20 September 2010 - 09:28 AM.

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#4 Sebastian Cepeda

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 10:14 AM

I will convert my ACL II to s16mm and I saw on the internet that if you use 35mm lenses on this camera you dont have to match them or do anything like that...f.e. a 35mm would still be a 35mm lens, so is this a false statement? And if I would use some 35mm PL lenses, would it still be the same?


Pardon me, what I meant by this was, that I know if I use a 35mm lens on s16 it isnt as wider as a 35mm lens with 35mm film.
But I would stil be able to use the 35mm Film lenses with s16mm without any problem but they arent as wide as in 35mm Film. Right?

Thanks again
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#5 Elliot Rudmann

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 11:42 AM

Yes you can mount 35mm still camera lenses on most 16mm cameras. I mounted my old Canon FD lenses to my Bolex EBM via an adapter. Made beautiful images, but it was tough to get wide shots without actually buying a wide lens made for 16mm. The "perspective" of 35mm still lenses is effectively doubled on a 16mm camera compared to how those same lenses would look on a 35mm camera.

I say "perspective" because if I say "focal length" I'll get nit-picked to death - even though it's easiest to say that the focal length of a 35mm-mount lens is doubled when you mount it on a 16mm-body.

Edited by Elliot Rudmann, 20 September 2010 - 11:43 AM.

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#6 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 06:57 PM

I say "perspective" because if I say "focal length" I'll get nit-picked to death - even though it's easiest to say that the focal length of a 35mm-mount lens is doubled when you mount it on a 16mm-body.

perpective is a better word for whqat you are trying to express. The Focal length of the lens stays the same no mater if you use it on a shoebox or a panaflex. A 50mm Still camera lens will still be 50mm, BUT a 50mm lens on a 16mm Camera is a slight telephoto.

The Still Camera industry is helping the confusion over "changing Focal Length" as many digital still cameras have a small sensor and they talk about a focal length factor.
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#7 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 07:06 PM

I plan on getting an Nikon to C Mount adapter to being able of using my Nikon Primes to film with. This shouldn't be any problem right?

After the conversion will your camera still have a c-mount? or just oneof the "pro" mounts? C mount is a bit on the light duty side.

A good adaptor will work with a matching still lens, although you do have to be careful if doing follow focus or zooming as SOME still lenses will wobble the image a bit... Not an issue on a still camera.

If you are working from a c mount I would not want to try to use a long lens as the weight might throw the mount off.
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#8 Sebastian Cepeda

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 02:20 AM

A good adaptor will work with a matching still lens, although you do have to be careful if doing follow focus or zooming as SOME still lenses will wobble the image a bit... Not an issue on a still camera.


Hi Thanks to all for the answers, I do have a lot of experience working with the nikon primes, I work a lot with the canon 5D Mark II, so I really know how to use them and the way they behave, breathing while racking focus and so on, so I think that shouldn't be any problem.

But now I'm thinking of maybe renting some good s16mm lenses, but that also depends on the adapter I might be using... I don't want the adapter to give up in the middle of the shoot and throw the expensive s16mm lens to the ground... that would be an expensive first 16mm shoot :(

And regarding the bathroom scene, Im stilling thinking what to do but I think I may go with some kind of chiaroscuro, so that the bathroom isnt to white and the viewer doesnt get bored on the first minutes.
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#9 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 08:42 AM

You say you're getting your camera converted to S16mm. why not have them pull out the C Mount and replace it with a PL, which'd open up a wide range of lenses for you to rent. Of course, a Nikon adapter won't work with PL, but in the end you'll open up a much larger world of glass for your camera for future project, and as for getting "cheaper" PL lenses, look into Lomos, which are Russian made 35mm lenses, some of them pretty old, but make very nice images and can be had for a few hundred for a PL version.

In the bathroom I'd see how bright it is to begin with, and might look into 200T stock ('17 or the new '13 from Kodak). Bathrooms can be a pain sometimes. Were it me, I'd try to keep the light off of the walls as much as possible with skirts etc. Depends on what the script calls for of course.
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#10 Sebastian Cepeda

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Posted 22 September 2010 - 03:04 AM

In the bathroom I'd see how bright it is to begin with, and might look into 200T stock ('17 or the new '13 from Kodak). Bathrooms can be a pain sometimes. Were it me, I'd try to keep the light off of the walls as much as possible with skirts etc. Depends on what the script calls for of course.


Hi Adrian,

I decided to make some test before shooting to see wich stocks better fits me, my swiss supplier will send me a 7213 30m for free and a 7219 (500T) also for free to test and see what to get.

I also thought of getting the PL Mount and I allready saw one to put in the C mount but this way I allways can change back to C Mount and Nikkon Mount.

I want to make somekind of Chiaroscuro on the bathroom so that Ill play a bit with the light, so I dont think ill be too bright and I think Ill prefer to go with the 7213, but Ill see after the tests.

Thanks to all again!
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#11 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 22 September 2010 - 11:35 AM

I also thought of getting the PL Mount and I allready saw one to put in the C mount but this way I allways can change back to C Mount and Nikkon Mount.


The PL mount will take MUCH hevier lenes than a C mount. With A PL adaptor on a c mount you have all the limitations of the C mount.
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