Jump to content


Photo

2-perf Aaton article "The Fighter"


  • Please log in to reply
7 replies to this topic

#1 Vincent Sweeney

Vincent Sweeney
  • Sustaining Members
  • 686 posts
  • Director
  • LA at the moment.

Posted 22 September 2010 - 03:56 AM

http://fdtimes.files...elope200pg5.pdf
  • 0

#2 Peter Moretti

Peter Moretti
  • Sustaining Members
  • 306 posts
  • Other
  • Sherman Oaks, CA

Posted 10 January 2011 - 03:23 AM

So, if I'm understanding correctly, 2 perf is printed as 4 perf anamorphic for projection. If that is correct, does this add expense, degrade quality or limit the theaters that can show the release print?

Thanks much.
  • 0

#3 Vincent Sweeney

Vincent Sweeney
  • Sustaining Members
  • 686 posts
  • Director
  • LA at the moment.

Posted 10 January 2011 - 04:33 AM

Did The Fighter look degraded to you, compared to anything else that is out right now?

Yes all films are, for the most part, printed 4-perf so theaters that use film to project, which are most, will be able to show it.

I'm not sure about the final exact expense of printing anamorphic but it couldn't be much different since you are still using the same amount of print stock.

You use half the film for shooting (compared to 4), the cameras are easier to work with and 400 ft. loads are light and last 9 minutes. That is much cheaper for sure on the production side.

If you want sterile images free from grain use an Alexa or red.
  • 0

#4 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 19759 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 10 January 2011 - 12:05 PM

So, if I'm understanding correctly, 2 perf is printed as 4 perf anamorphic for projection. If that is correct, does this add expense, degrade quality or limit the theaters that can show the release print?

Thanks much.


The release print is standard 4-perf 35mm, usually scope because most people would choose 2-perf for a 2.35 film. So no limitations for theaters.

Compared to shooting with anamorphic lenses and using the full height of a 4-perf 35mm negative, 2-perf uses less film and would be thus a bit grainier and softer, but compared to shooting in Super-35, where whether you shot 4-perf or 3-perf, you only use about 2 and a 1/2 perfs to achieve a 2.35 image, shooting 2-perf is so similar that the quality difference would be minimal, and most 2.35 movies shoot Super-35 these days, so 2-perf is not going to standout as being softer and grainier than that.

Shooting 2-perf saves money in terms of stock. The only limitations is making sure your telecine for dailies and your scanner for the D.I. can handle a 2-perf negative, and most can these days. The other limitation is a lack of 2-perf projectors at labs if you plan on printing tests of the negative and projecting them -- you may have to watch them projected in 4-perf and see two images on the screen.

Actually the biggest limitation is merely the lack of modern 2-perf sync-sound cameras to rent, there are not that many yet on the market.
  • 0

#5 Mark Dunn

Mark Dunn
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2422 posts
  • Other
  • London

Posted 10 January 2011 - 12:17 PM

The other limitation is a lack of 2-perf projectors at labs if you plan on printing tests of the negative and projecting them -- you may have to watch them projected in 4-perf and see two images on the screen.


That's no great hardship. I've viewed standard-8 on a Steenbeck. It's a little tricky to read action but no problem for evaluating the photography, I wouldn't have thought.
  • 0

#6 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 19759 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 10 January 2011 - 05:44 PM

I just saw "The Fighter" this afternoon, digitally projected... the image quality was similar to other Super-35 movies, maybe just a tad "grittier" but that's partly a function of the more documentary style of shooting.
  • 0

#7 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 19759 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 11 January 2011 - 12:56 PM

I did see a bit more vertical gate flare than I normally see in movies, around bright windows behind people's heads... I wonder if that's what I saw, and if so, if Aaton can make a black 2-perf gate?
  • 0

#8 Gregory Irwin

Gregory Irwin
  • Sustaining Members
  • 589 posts
  • 1st Assistant Camera
  • Work is based in Los Angeles but I live elsewhere.

Posted 12 January 2011 - 09:00 PM

I did see a bit more vertical gate flare than I normally see in movies, around bright windows behind people's heads... I wonder if that's what I saw, and if so, if Aaton can make a black 2-perf gate?


Blacking out the gate has little effect on gate flares. I've shot extensive tests on this subject. Since Super 35 uses the majority of the full aperture area (horizontally) the light passing through the lens will refract off of the gate regardless of it's color and end up flaring within the frame. It's an unfortunate by-product of the format. Even the Cooke S4s will produce gate flares when they're not supposed to flare at all. Having said the above, gate flares are not limited to the Super 35 format. All formats can experience them.

Gate flares will occur mostly when a specular light source is seen inside of the full aperture area but outside of the frame lines. Once the light source is included in the frame, the gate flare will cease to exist. Similarly, once it's excluded from the full aperture, it will most likely not occur. Let the debate begin!

G
  • 0


Willys Widgets

Rig Wheels Passport

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

CineTape

The Slider

CineLab

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Metropolis Post

Aerial Filmworks

FJS International, LLC

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Paralinx LLC

Tai Audio

Technodolly

Wooden Camera

rebotnix Technologies

Abel Cine

Visual Products

Glidecam

Ritter Battery

Opal

Broadcast Solutions Inc

FJS International, LLC

The Slider

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Wooden Camera

Rig Wheels Passport

Paralinx LLC

Ritter Battery

CineTape

Willys Widgets

CineLab

Abel Cine

Glidecam

Tai Audio

rebotnix Technologies

Metropolis Post

Opal

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Visual Products

Aerial Filmworks

Technodolly