Best frame rate?
Posted 24 September 2010 - 05:20 PM
Posted 24 September 2010 - 05:41 PM
Posted 24 September 2010 - 09:23 PM
My experience with shooting 8mm was that the reduction in shooting time was minimal from 18 to 24 fps.
Posted 25 September 2010 - 02:03 AM
Posted 26 September 2010 - 09:19 AM
I can't help but feel you'd be working yourself into some kind of hole with all the manipulation you are talking about.
I don't know what 'doubling' frames would look like if not done on a pro film chain, but the simple solution is to shoot at 24fps and have a good transfer done. It's a matter of money, nothing else.
Maybe there is some software that can help you, but I just wonder what the final result would look like, as opposed to sending it to a real telecine place.
One thing I would not do is shoot two different speeds, unless I specifically wanted the effect of the action slowed down by a 1/3 when running at 24fps compared to 18.
24fps gives you 2mins, 40secs per cartridge. 18fps gives you 3mins, 30secs per cartridge.
24 or 25 look better, period.
The shutter speed per frame is shorter at 24, so less potential for blur in each frame, thus better-looking images. Also, the grain moves faster at 24, so to the eye, it helps with the clarity of the image.
Good luck with it.
Posted 26 September 2010 - 09:27 AM
Once you have a high-quality transfer of the film, Sony Vegas Movie Studio is a good package for editing and outputting to your medium of choice (it also has the option of either PAL or NTSC.)
It has the benefit of costing less than other systems and is very versatile.
Edited by Claus Harding, 26 September 2010 - 09:29 AM.
Posted 27 September 2010 - 01:52 PM
Are more sophisticated programs available that render interpolated inbetween frames by using vector math and transposing moving parts of the image? could you recommend software?
The consumer type software does "blur-betweens". The only thing out there that actually interpolates the positions of objects is Arri's Relativity. But it's strictly a professional facility vendor product, six digit price tag, and months of learning curve to train an operator. Automated object recognition is an extremely difficult problem, but when they crack it, not only will we have frame rate conversion, we'll also have robot vision solved.
Posted 28 September 2010 - 03:46 PM
. For the best frame rate to film a specific scene, such as the pan you mentioned, normally film is run faster so that it smooths out while projected or transfered at the 'normal' rate of playback speed. This variation from whatever your 'normal' filming speed is would apply to whatever you're trying to film, such as very slow moving shots which are "under-cranked" or filmed at a slower frame rate so they appear speeded up, the opposite of smoothing out that pan shot. Or by filming at an even higher rate to smooth out or slow down faster movement.
. For the best overall quality, most would defer to the industry standard filming rate of 24fps (25fps for our European filmers). Here in the USA, using Super 8mm, I find the slight gain in using 24fps not worth it personally. This is were subjectivity comes into play and only you can decided for yourself if the imaging difference is worth it to you. Super 8mm works quite well at 18fps since the film moves well thru the cartridge with the torturous path it has to take.
If using NTSC and the transfer speedup of 19.97fps is disturbing, you can also transfer exactly at 18fps using some machines and services these days. So, IF you decide to film at 24fps, back to your panning situation, you would still want to film at a faster rate than 24fps, nominally about 30fps to smooth out the movement visually. Most Super 8mm cameras that offer speed variations, with either have a 32fps or 48fps option, with some of the very high end cameras such as BEAULIEU allowing you to fine tune the speed to your own liking. Other cameras such as the fine NIZO S-xxx series only jump to 54fps after the 24fps point. So, your various options on the cameras for this Super 8 format also should be taken into consideration. On one of my cameras I can shoot normally at 18fps, use the 12fps for undercranking...thus having a speeded up effect, and use 24fps for smoothing out pans, filming from moving vehicles etc, and still have a faster 48fps for slow motion.
So to recap, BEST frame rate....a relative term that only you can determine which will work for your needs. Relative to what features and functions most decent Super 8mm cameras have available, you'll find my 18fps example falls in the ballpark. IF you prefer to use the industry rate of 24fps, then you may not be able to use incamera options for some features you'd like to employ for your film work. Hope this opinion helps you.