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7222 problem


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#1 Yevgeny Rybalko

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Posted 12 November 2010 - 06:51 PM

hi! I have a problem with 7222 stock. Bought brand new at kodak, not x-rayed, kept in the fridge at +5'C, 55% humidity.
Can it be a result of overheating in developer or anything else? poor halftones, excessive grain in highlights/
measured scene contrast 2 stops was set around recommended EI 250D as -1 stop in the forest and +1 stop outside. It was not a sunny day, so, anyway the image must fit in the linear characteristic, but...look at the tree (halftones) and a piece of sky (grain!)
Posted Image
thank you.
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#2 Simon Wyss

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 04:15 AM

Tell us about the processing of your footage. Which temperature was the film bathed at?
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#3 Yevgeny Rybalko

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 08:13 AM

Tell us about the processing of your footage. Which temperature was the film bathed at?


I wish I know that..
It was developed without any special requests to the lab, so I guess in standart conditions (7 mins 21'c). But something went wrong, so I'm trying to find out what was wrong looking at the result.

Thanks in advance.
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#4 K Borowski

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 11:08 AM

Have you looked at the negatives?

Sorry, but just looking at a transfer on tape or a computer file it could be, literally, ANYTHING.
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#5 Elliot Rudmann

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 12:13 PM

How was it transferred? That example looks very soft but it could just be compression.
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#6 Simon Wyss

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 12:15 PM

Mr. Borowski is so right. Film is judged in direct projection. Why do you young folks not have contacts made? You want film, so work with film, especially with Double-X negative in a cow’s stomach.

Edited by Simon Wyss, 13 November 2010 - 12:18 PM.

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#7 Yevgeny Rybalko

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 12:15 PM

Have you looked at the negatives?

Sorry, but just looking at a transfer on tape or a computer file it could be, literally, ANYTHING.


I was developing some color stock the same day and trasferred it one-light together with b/w to the same digibeta cassette. Color first (looked stunning) and then b/w - transfer operator just changed reel in a scanner and we both saw this defect on a scanner monitor. So it is not a transfer defect or file compression artifact.
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#8 Yevgeny Rybalko

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 12:27 PM

Look, I completely understand that all of you have transfer facilities and laboratories in your native town or country. In my country there are no laboratories, no specialists, no transfer, no kodak dealer, no film education and no feature production. A hell for young enthusiast)) So, as I'm trying to do something here and do not want to go digital - just can you be more detailed. I suppose this is why this forum exists. Thank you.

Edited by Yevgeny Rybalko, 13 November 2010 - 12:29 PM.

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#9 K Borowski

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 12:55 PM

Listen, there are plenty of places like this. Only big cities in major countries (the U.S. is fortunate to have several, but even here, there isn't a movie film lab in every city), have film production facilities.

Even if you don't have the negative ON YOU, have someone at the lab look at it an see if the negative looks dense or thin.



It sounds though, from what you said, it looks like a bad transfer, or if it is a one-light transfer, it's just uncorrected.

Looking at the file in photoshop, the FILE is underexposed, but again, that doesn't tell me anything. I suspect the film is fine, because there is detail in the shadows if I adjust the levels.
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#10 K Borowski

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Posted 13 November 2010 - 12:59 PM

You want film, so work with film, especially with Double-X negative in a cow’s stomach.


Simon, is that a literal translation of a German idiom? It doesn't really mean anything translated into English.
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#11 Simon Wyss

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 02:05 PM

Simon, is that a literal translation of a German idiom? It doesn't really mean anything translated into English.

Of course does it mean something. You probably don’t understand what I want to express: there’s this swiss german saying that it’s dark like inside a cow’s stomach or inside a cow. Sometimes we say Two Black Men Fighting with each other in a Tunnel at Night. High key would be called An Eskimo (I know, not PC) Fighting with an Ice Bear During a Snow Storm.

I downloaded the picture data and made it appear full size on my monitor. It looked better than I first thought but still . . .
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#12 Kieran Scannell

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 03:59 PM

hi! I have a problem with 7222 stock. Bought brand new at kodak, not x-rayed, kept in the fridge at +5'C, 55% humidity.
Can it be a result of overheating in developer or anything else? poor halftones, excessive grain in highlights/
measured scene contrast 2 stops was set around recommended EI 250D as -1 stop in the forest and +1 stop outside. It was not a sunny day, so, anyway the image must fit in the linear characteristic, but...look at the tree (halftones) and a piece of sky (grain!)
Posted Image
thank you.


I've seen worse Yevgeny! I really don't see the problem with this frame, B&W 16mm in a forest! It looks to me properly exposed, a little grainy maybe but that's 16mm film.
What exactly were you expecting to see in this frame?
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#13 Bill DiPietra

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 05:47 PM

I've seen worse Yevgeny! I really don't see the problem with this frame, B&W 16mm in a forest! It looks to me properly exposed, a little grainy maybe but that's 16mm film.
What exactly were you expecting to see in this frame?


Could be a bit of reticulation...it seems to run down the center of the shot.
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#14 Friedemann Wachsmuth

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Posted 16 November 2010 - 07:15 PM

Yevgeny,

beside the things said above, the JPG-file you posted contains a non-standard ICC profile that many Browsers on most operating systems will not render probably. It might be that you are so disappointed b/c your viewer-tool does not use color management (aka interprets icc profiles).
When lifting the shadows a bit and properly converting it to sRGB, even this mediocre compressed JPG files looks quite ok:
Posted Image

As Karl outlined, nobody can say for sure, but I would say that your negative contains a lot more information than what your example suggests.
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#15 Alain Lumina

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Posted 14 December 2010 - 02:14 AM

Could camera shake/movement have been a problem here? The background looks like it might
have movement blur. Was this shot on a tripod? Was there panning happening?
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