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Home Processing ektachrome 100D (Super 8)


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#1 James Cook

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 08:53 AM

HI there, I've been Home Processing ektachrome 64T Super 8 film for a while using a arkay G-3 rewind tank and a tetenal E6 kit and the results have been pretty good, since they discontinued 64T I picked up some 100D and processed it last night, however the results are mixed and much more erratic than the 64T, for instance I did two films and with the first I got dark patches you see when watching the film back and imprints of sprocket holes, I sped up the rewinding on the second film and this seemed to sort this issue (ish) however on both films they seem to be Solorized although I didn't expose the film to light at all until after the stabilizer bath, could over blixing it do this? any ideas? Also does anyone else process 100D/64T using a rewind tank at E6 as i'd be interested in hearing you timings.

Cheers,

James.
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#2 John Salim

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Posted 10 December 2010 - 06:48 PM

Hi James,
Firstly I have to say the newer Ektachrome 100D E-6 films are much more sensitive to process variations - particularly towards the tail end of the process ( pre-bleach onwards ) so are 'more difficult' to produce best quality results.

Secondly, I'd suggest you use a Lomo type tank as I'm sure the dark patches with sprocket marks might sound like you're winding the film too fast ( and denying enough 'fresh' chemical to the film ).

The solarised effect you're having may have something to do with lack of full bleaching .....winding too fast again.

How do the clear and unexposed parts look ? ( D-min and D-max )

John S :rolleyes:
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#3 Adriaan Vogelzang

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 05:49 AM

I am new here and i was wondering about the same thing.

Now kodachrome has finished definately, i also want to try processing a 100D at home. I have been processing B&W for years with great results in a russian tank.

What i wonder mostly about is how to keep the temperature right during the developing process. secondly, it takes about one minute to poor out the fluids so i guess i have to start emptying the tank about a minute before the developing time limit in order to avoid the film being exposed to the chemicals too long?

How do you do this?
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#4 alexandros petin

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 07:32 AM

Hello

i use two large paper developing trays filled with water and two aquarium heaters heating each at the 38C temperature.
one tray heats the chemicals the other the lomo tank. thats the best method i have found so far to keep good temperature during the process.

i also consider emptying the tank is included in developing time but i am not sure if this is right.

Edited by alexandros petin, 13 January 2011 - 07:33 AM.

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#5 Martin Baumgarten

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Posted 06 August 2011 - 11:51 AM

Spiral Reel processing or Rack & Tray, since both are full immersion methods, they are the best for critical controlled process timing doing Super 8mm. I recommend that over the G-3 Rewind Tank.

However.....the problems you're having with the G-3 need to be addressed. IF you rinse well BETWEEN ALL solutions, you'll have far better results. The "imprinting" of the sprocket holes/perforations on the film as it wraps around on the reels is somewhat normal with rewind processing. However, it should only be within the sprocket hole realm on the film and no where else. If it shows up in the image area, the reels are set too wide, or have drifted wider: usually a problem with the later made Arkay or Doran processors...as the original Morse units that do Super 8mm, are metal reels. Lastly, the "solarization" problem you got is due to insufficient bleaching. The Bleach step needs to be often dragged out as much as 5 minutes/passes longer than what you're using. Keep in mind, with rewind processing, you are trying to pass film from one reel to the other via controlled cranking so it passes in a minute's time. IF only doing one 50ft roll of Super 8mm, then you could wind faster and do it in 30 seconds, but you would also have to adjust all your process times for the process to balance out. So, rinse between all solutions for at least two passes/minutes minimum up to 4 passes; this is NOT the washes, but the inbetween the other solutions stages. Also, to make sure you are getting Full Reversal in your images, you can keep the film in the Reversal Bath for another two passes. I hope you're using the normal 6 chemical step E-6 process. IF you are using the 3-bath E-6 process, you might want to not only rinse well between stages, but also introduce a PreBleach chemical step from the normal full E-6 process. This can be purchased separately and will help with the Bleach problem which is causing the "solarization" effect, via leaving behind silver compounds.

When using the LOMO tank spiral reel process.......forget about using the draining of the solution and timing that way in the Developer stages......just remove the reel from the solution allowing 10 to 20 seconds for draining (factor this into the timing), and rinse it in a container of water the same temperature. This has to be done in TOTAL Darkness of course, but you could use a small bucket or plastic dish washing container for this purpose. Even better is if you have another LOMO tank to use. However, even if not, you can use two large black trash bags, which will be opaque, and then put the bucket or container with the rinse water and film reel in that (once you've rinsed the film some), then you can turn on the room lights, drain the LOMO tank, and rinse it out. Then fill it up with Wash Water, TURN OFF the room lights, return the film from the container to the LOMO tank and slowly lower the reel into the tank with water, then put the cover on and turn on the room lights. Since once you're past the Reversal Bath step you can work in room light, remaining timing is easier. Do the same with the COLOR DEVELOPER, and this way you'll have significantly more accurate timing in BOTH Developing Stages.

For heating of solutions and temperature control, the heaters made for aquariums work well. I also use those cup heaters, as they will maintain temp in a large container quite well once heated up. They do run constantly of course, but that's not a problem. Use some stiff wire across the tank so the element doesn't come in contact with anything or the tank or container sides which are plastic. Another method is just to heat up some hot water and keep that nearby and keep a thermometer in your water jacket tank, and just add some hot water to help maintain that. With practice you can control your solution temperature, which really only needs to be very accurate with the Two Developers, and more importantly....the Color Developer. All other solutions for E-6 can be off by 5 Degrees either way. The First Developer controls the image density, so if the temp is up or down, you'll have to adjust your time to compensate. The Color Developer temperature if too high or too low will affect color bias; as will the PH and Specific Gravity. If the solution is too dilute you'll get a Magenta cast, if too concentrated it will shift to Green, and temperature will throw it off as well. So.....best to be as accurate as you can with the Color Developer. The other solutions, are not as critical and the Bleach and Fixer could even be done much lower if necessary for some reason. It is important to try to keep them all within a few degrees of each other, or drift downward in temp after the Color Developer....and stay that way. Otherwise you risk emulsion cracking and grain problems with too much inconsistancy.
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#6 John Salim

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 04:00 AM

I'd like to clarify some very important notes regarding E-6 processing ( whilst using the latest Kodak E-6 chemicals - which is nine baths ).


1st Dev
Wash
Reversal bath
Colour Dev ( new type )
Pre-Bleach
Bleach
Fixer
Wash
Final rinse


Firstly, you should not use a wash step between the Reversal Bath and Colour Developer as the film emulsion needs to be impregnated with Reversal agent to fully nucleate with the Colour Developer to achieve full reversal.

Secondly, there shouldn’t be any wash step between the Pre-Bleach and Bleach baths as again the film emulsion needs Pre-Bleach saturation to achieve effective bleaching.

Thirdly, specific gravity does not affect the magenta to green bias anymore ( lowering SG will now give a cyan bias ).

It doesn't matter much if you over bleach or over fix, but bear in mind Ektachrome 100D is very sensitive to process variations ( particularly the back end of the process ).....this film ( like all modern films ) require full bleaching.

Hope that helps,
John S
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#7 Daniel Lee

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 12:16 AM

You do not need to use pre-bleach and E-6 bleach.

Pre-Bleach contains the dye preservative, if you skip it, include a stabiliser as your final rinse (such as Stabiliser III, or photoflo with formalin/formaldehyde added).

E-6 is actually one of the easier processes, it is just longer and more tedious, replenishing is simpler and easier, as is mixing up developer, the first developer is the critical component here, different processing temperatures give colour shifts which is very important on E-6 since it has cleared highlights and projection contrast, not as flexible for correction if you've clipped info you need for correction on the film itself.

The first developer is a 1 part concentrate, the one we have here mixes up in 1+4 for replenisher (800ml of water, 200ml of concentrate), and then added water + starter for working tank solution, it is very simple.

I pre-soak all my film including E-6, it works very well, I have no problems with this, though movie lengths of film in annoying tanks may retain more water in the tank from a pre-soak, be sure to drain as much as possible if you plan on replenishing.

Pre-soaking heats the tank and film up to processing temp, I usually put in ~45c water, and it drops a few degrees, so that the first developer will become stable in a plastic tank over the 6 minutes processing time.


It's not simply wash between 1st dev and reversal, that's incorrect.

You need to wash around the same temp as first dev, the first wash you need to put in after first dev, agitate for the first 30 seconds, then lit it sit for a total of 2 minutes (this weakly continues development and is part of the process) (the 2 minutes includes the 30 seconds agitation). Then you run subsequent washes, then you run the reversal bath.


If you want to run an alternate bleach you can, even C-41 bleach, or a ferricyanide bleach, the important component of the bleach is the pH for colour, just don't run pre-bleach before it (or rinse several times after pre-bleach), if you are skipping pre-bleach, run a stabiliser at the end as final rinse.




You should rinse after bleach as well. Using other bleaches introduces other things you may need to do such as clearing bathes for a ferricyanide bleach.

Edited by Daniel Lee, 18 August 2011 - 12:18 AM.

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#8 Daniel Lee

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 02:51 AM

The other thing I forgot to mention is if you want to heat up a large volume of chemistry, you can do it on a stove (ceramic centered wire gauze matt and borosciliate glass beaker for gas stoves), there is an equation to work out the temperature of the final solution of mixing 2 solutions (of the same stuff) together of different volumes and temps.

So you can work out how hot you need to heat up a smaller volume to mix back into a large volume to reach processing temperature - even if you have to do it a few times if it's quite a large volume.
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#9 Martin Baumgarten

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Posted 25 August 2011 - 02:47 PM

Technically, they are correct, no wash is necessary between the REVERSAL BATH and the COLOR DEVELOPER. However, all the other technical information others have provided are fine, concerning a FULL IMMERSION type of processing, such as via RACK & TROUGH or SPIRAL REELS. BUT, my answer concerns the original question in processing using the R E W I N D Tank method...and there are other concerns regarding this. The REWIND TANK process is a compromise processing method of sorts, since the film ONLY picks up fresh chemistry the moment it passes between the two reels in winding. The film is continously wound back and forth, and since it winds up upon itself with no gap between film layers.....only the residual chemistry that is contained within the film emulsion...is doing the work. Compromises and a different type of methodology is necessary to yield decent quality when using a REWIND TANK (Morse G-3, Arkay G-3, Doran G-3, Fairchild Rewind Tanks, Aerial Film Rewind Tank Processors, LOMO Rewind Tank, and the Beacon Motorized Rewind Processor among others].

Proper rinsing between most stages, will help avoid the imprinting problem, and minimize large amounts of residual chemistry remaining in the emulsion to avoid contamination staining. You can NOT apply the same standards for processing of still film, or movie film on spiral reels, to the REWIND TANK type process. There isn't an exact control of each stage to the same critical nature, and if you try to do so, you'll just get awful results in the end. I've been processing movie film manually since I was in my teens, and we also had the MORSE G-3 REWIND TANKS as field units, camera testing, and emergency backups while in the military. Anyone that has successfully used a REWIND TANK method for the developing of motion picture film, particularily reversal film processing, will attest to the necessary variations. That all being said, I hope you can work out a method with your G-3 Tank and get good results, and post the results back on this newsgroup.
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