Jump to content


Photo

Best Super 8 Film Editor?


  • Please log in to reply
20 replies to this topic

#1 Jeromy Darling

Jeromy Darling

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts
  • Other

Posted 11 December 2010 - 06:59 PM

any recommendations? Lots to choose from on ebay - any I should be looking for?
  • 0

#2 Bob Last

Bob Last
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 52 posts
  • Other
  • San Jose, CA and Philippines

Posted 11 December 2010 - 08:24 PM

any recommendations? Lots to choose from on ebay - any I should be looking for?


I'll go for Minette S5.
  • 0

#3 Mark Dunn

Mark Dunn
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2665 posts
  • Other
  • London

Posted 12 December 2010 - 07:13 AM

Any one which is kind to the film and has an accessible gate for marking. Motorised if you can get it but in any case a nice easy transport so there's no tendency to skinch the roll when winding. A halogen bulb will be nice and bright.
  • 0

#4 Andries Molenaar

Andries Molenaar
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 683 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Amsterdam

Posted 12 December 2010 - 02:13 PM



Find an Elmo with a Non-Flicker prism.
Motordriven if you like, be sure the belts are OK.

Must it have sound, for old film?

Indeed it is best to install a halogen, with some effort you can find 6 Volt ones. Don't overdo the Watt as the transformer will not deliver that much more.


  • 0

#5 Bruce Taylor

Bruce Taylor
  • Sustaining Members
  • 482 posts
  • Other
  • Los Angeles

Posted 13 December 2010 - 07:34 PM

The Goko was also quite good, back in the day. I have a very nice one, bright, non flicker prism, motorized, sound capable. I think it may also have some recording features, but I always used my Elmo projector for that.
  • 0

#6 Martin Baumgarten

Martin Baumgarten
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 205 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Plattsburgh, New York U.S.A.

Posted 18 December 2010 - 06:18 PM

Of all the Super 8 (& 8mm) editors, there are two main design types regarding the film placement. The BAIA corporation editor-viewers and all those made by BAIA under store brand names (Sears, Wards, K-Mart's Focal, Pennys etc) require the film to unravel from the Left side Supply in a counter-clockwise manner, thus the emulsion of the film is downward. They made cheap ones and some better large screen ones. If they are clean and work well, and you are careful, they'll do the job. Those large screens are nice and bright.

However, my recommendation is for the other design type, whereby the film unravels from the left Supply side reel in a clockwise direction, just as it does from the projector.....so the emulsion is in the up position. Editors made in this manner are the numerous ones from GOKO Japan, which also made them for HAHNEL, ERNO, ELMO, SEARS, and many others. They will have a similar if not exact appearance to their GOKO counterparts (since they are made by GOKO), and will also have the "NF System" moniker....referring to the polygon prism method (versus the 2 or 4 sided prisms of virtually all previous editors which have considerable flicker. The GOKO units are nice, easy to use, and use their polygon 16 facet prism (NF system). They did make a couple smaller ones that use a 12 facet prism, and while that alone is not a problem, the sprocket drive used puts too much torque on the film and prism rotation mechanism. These are easy to tell, since they have a film sprocket visible just before the film gate. Whereby the other design has the film move over the filmgate, and the sprocket is a large diameter one incorporated on the side of the polygon prism. This design with the large sprocket on the prism side causes virtually no torque on the film sprocket holes, and allows for very easy transport.

GOKO also made both manual and motorized editors. Most allow attachment of a sound reproducer to which you can listen to the sound track via earphone or headphone. However using a manual crank or basic motorized unit will cause uneven sound reproduction. The main goal here was to be able to find a synch or editing spot to know where to cut the film so that there is the best tradeoff for picture and sound editing on single-system sound films. GOKO's high end machines, their 8008 and 3008 units allow for sound recording as well, since they are capstan run units with stable recording quality at both 18fps or 24fps, with the higher model allowing recording on both tracks and also in Stereophonic sound. GOKO made a capstan run editor for ELMO which is a nice machine but without recording capability. These are all very gentle on film.

Other well made machines that are somewhat less easier to locate are: BAUER, BRAUN (Nizo), and the well made metal bodied MINETTE. The MINETTE was made in both stand alone units with film reel arms, or as a free standing viewer only requiring separate film reel arms mounted onto a baseboard. Lastly, while there were many other units made by other makers such as Chinon, the older well made metal units made by CRAIG-KALART in the USA if clean and in good condition will work fine also.

Hope this helps you out some.
  • 1

#7 Jeromy Darling

Jeromy Darling

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts
  • Other

Posted 21 December 2010 - 04:02 PM

wow, fantastic help guys. Holy smoke.

This is what's on ebay right now
This is what's on Craigslist right now
  • 0

#8 Matthew Herbert

Matthew Herbert
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 10 posts
  • Other
  • Chicago Area

Posted 05 January 2018 - 01:46 PM

However, my recommendation is for the other design type, whereby the film unravels from the left Supply side reel in a clockwise direction, just as it does from the projector.....so the emulsion is in the up position. 

 

[Goko] did make a couple smaller ones that use a 12 facet prism, and while that alone is not a problem, the sprocket drive used puts too much torque on the film and prism rotation mechanism. These are easy to tell, since they have a film sprocket visible just before the film gate. 

 

Hi Martin, 

 

Would you recommend a Baia over a Goko that has the sprocket before the gate? Why do you recommend emulsion side up? Is it more important than ease of film transport? I am looking for something simple that will not scratch the film and allow me to mark the film for cuts. Thanks for your advice! I really appreciate it.

 

Here is a Goko I am considering but I'm concerned about the torque issue that you described:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/332466544696

 

Here is a Baia that appears to be emulsion side up, but I believe winds right to left?:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/292393529268


  • 0

#9 Martin Baumgarten

Martin Baumgarten
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 205 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Plattsburgh, New York U.S.A.

Posted 07 January 2018 - 03:30 PM

Hi Matthew,  There is another issue with most of the BAIA Film Editors and that is that they require a bulb that was sold in a holder already pre-focused.  It's possible to replace it but you have to solder it in yourself then into the exiting lamp holder.  These are very light weight units, and it helps to tape them down so they don't move around on you.  The GOKO model you show the link for is a superior editor to the BAIA unit, and yes it has the sprocket offset before the film gate. The issue here is that the sprocket shaft drives a small gear which in turn rotates the prism via a gear on it.  When new, they were fine, however, if you lubricate that shaft so it and the prism rotate easily enough, it will minimize stress on the film itself.  I would either wait for a better one to show up, unless you want to buy one of the GOKOs on there from Germany which are pricey with the shipping (all relative since I paid $119.00 for my first GOKO new back in 1981 From Frank's Highland Park Camera near Los Angeles....adjusting for inflation, and my time and gas to drive the 340 miles round trip from where I lived in Central California, it's much more expensive than anything on eBay....but...all relative of course).   The BAIA unit is a bit expensive...but it works out since it comes with the KODAK PressTape Splicer (yeah, I know many are not fans of this unit, but it's good for repairing film that has sprocket hole damage etc), and a 400ft BAIA film reel & case (about $15 or so for something similar new these days), so IF you don't mind a smaller screen image and that you might have to fiddle to replace the lamp if it's not working or soon after getting it, it could be a good deal pricewise.  I still would hold out for a GOKO, but I'd buy this one just to have to now and gain the splicer and reel etc.  The BAIA film reels aren't as fragile the STAR-D or similar made plastic ones, they have some give in them, and while not autoload reels, they seem to last forever, great for film storage.  So, the GOKO NF System editors or the SEARS branded version, or ELMO branded version, or ERNO branded version, will be more fun and easier to use.  As for the emulsion position, it's a bit of a bother splicing if using a good splicer such as the BOLEX, WURKER, HAHNEL etc as you have to twist the film to put it into position, not a real big deal but annoying.  The BAIA splicers often had their own mini tape splicer builtin to the bottom or came withone freestanding (with the S curve visible in the splice, now only usable to those that would like a throwback look of sorts in their film), anyhow, for those it didn't matter that much.  Just when working quickly, it was bother, as you always had to remember the film's position since it's being fed into the Editor Viewer backwards position from how it goes into a projector and many other editors.  This design was used to prevent film stress or scratching since the film unrolls from the underside of the reel.  In use, once you get used to it, it's a moot point perhaps.  Keep hunting, it's worth it!


  • 0

#10 Matthew Herbert

Matthew Herbert
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 10 posts
  • Other
  • Chicago Area

Posted 07 January 2018 - 08:25 PM

Is this the Sears model you are talking about?

 

https://www.ebay.com...2.c100227.m3827


  • 0

#11 Martin Baumgarten

Martin Baumgarten
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 205 posts
  • Industry Rep
  • Plattsburgh, New York U.S.A.

Posted 09 January 2018 - 01:28 PM

Sorry no, this SEARS one was made by BAIA and is virtually the same as the BAIA large screen version, with the SEARS name badge on it.   Here's are some GOKO units on eBay:  

Editor viewer GOKO GM5005

https://www.ebay.com...lgAAOSwtfhYoP16

 

https://www.ebay.com...AAOSwL9paVI3k z

 

ELMO Sound Editor 912S (made by GOKO for ELMO)

https://www.ebay.com...JMAAOSwmPdZsgjE


  • 0

#12 Rudy Velez Jr

Rudy Velez Jr
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 225 posts
  • Other
  • New York

Posted 10 January 2018 - 09:40 PM

I have several Minette S-5's and a S4 which is great 

 

if your interested PM me 


  • 0

#13 Matthew Herbert

Matthew Herbert
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 10 posts
  • Other
  • Chicago Area

Posted 15 January 2018 - 06:22 AM

Thanks Martin! I really appreciate your help and detailed information.


  • 0

#14 Matthew Herbert

Matthew Herbert
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 10 posts
  • Other
  • Chicago Area

Posted 24 January 2018 - 09:36 AM

Martin, I ended up getting the GOKO GM5005 for $1.35 on ebay... lol. 

 

Granted, there was a shipping fee, but still...

 

Thanks again for your help!


  • 0

#15 tom lombard

tom lombard
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 141 posts
  • Other
  • nebraska

Posted 24 January 2018 - 11:29 AM

I can start another thread if required but maybe a quick yes or no here would be useful... would most of the info above regarding S8mm editors be valid for 16mm?  Such as brands & features.  If it's a whole other animal, maybe a new thread is in order.  Thanks.


  • 0

#16 Mark Dunn

Mark Dunn
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2665 posts
  • Other
  • London

Posted 24 January 2018 - 12:18 PM

I can start another thread if required but maybe a quick yes or no here would be useful... would most of the info above regarding S8mm editors be valid for 16mm?  Such as brands & features.  If it's a whole other animal, maybe a new thread is in order.  Thanks.

Not really. 16mm. was no longer much of an amateur format by 1965. It's a different market and 16mm. viewers were never made in great numbers. Moviskop, Muray and Magnasync are a few names to look for. You need separate rewind arms- I'm not aware of any 16mm. model with built-in arms such as the S8 viewers have.


  • 0

#17 Samuel Berger

Samuel Berger
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1175 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Seattle

Posted 24 January 2018 - 12:25 PM

I suggest the Zeiss Moviscop with a pair of Moviola winders and a Moviola Magnasync synchroniser. Some have sound heads, too. Depending on what you're editing you might need it for syncing sound.


  • 0

#18 Glenn Brady

Glenn Brady
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 328 posts
  • Other

Posted 24 January 2018 - 04:45 PM

I suggest the Zeiss Moviscop with a pair of Moviola winders and a Moviola Magnasync synchroniser. Some have sound heads, too. Depending on what you're editing you might need it for syncing sound.

 

The Zeiss Moviscop Super 8 viewer is comparatively uncommon and, unlike the Zeiss Moviscop regular 8mm viewer, it's fitted with integral rewind arms (although these could probably be removed).  The Zeiss Moviscop Super 8 viewer is of good quality, but I think the Minette S-5 is a better viewer (I've owned both).  Unlike other viewers named, these are of metal rather than plastic construction.  


  • 0

#19 Mark Dunn

Mark Dunn
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2665 posts
  • Other
  • London

Posted 25 January 2018 - 06:13 AM

 

The Zeiss Moviscop Super 8 viewer is comparatively uncommon and, unlike the Zeiss Moviscop regular 8mm viewer, it's fitted with integral rewind arms (although these could probably be removed).  The Zeiss Moviscop Super 8 viewer is of good quality, but I think the Minette S-5 is a better viewer (I've owned both).  Unlike other viewers named, these are of metal rather than plastic construction.  

As from post 15 we're now discussing 16mm.


  • 0

#20 Pavan Deep

Pavan Deep
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 347 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • UK

Posted 25 January 2018 - 07:34 AM

Most of the 16mm I use is negative film so having an editor has never been essential, but recently I needed to find a 100ft roll, the lab had spliced several 100ft rolls onto a core. I bought a Murray 8/16 editor off Ebay, it has an 8mm and a separate 16mm gate.

 

Pav


Edited by Pavan Deep, 25 January 2018 - 07:37 AM.

  • 0


The Slider

Ritter Battery

Aerial Filmworks

Technodolly

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Willys Widgets

Abel Cine

CineTape

Wooden Camera

Paralinx LLC

Tai Audio

Glidecam

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Visual Products

Metropolis Post

rebotnix Technologies

New Pro Video - New and Used Equipment

CineLab

FJS International, LLC

Rig Wheels Passport

Paralinx LLC

The Slider

Metropolis Post

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Visual Products

Ritter Battery

rebotnix Technologies

Tai Audio

Rig Wheels Passport

FJS International, LLC

CineTape

Aerial Filmworks

Abel Cine

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Willys Widgets

Technodolly

Glidecam

CineLab

New Pro Video - New and Used Equipment

Wooden Camera

Gamma Ray Digital Inc