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#1 Artyom Zakharenko

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 06:16 PM

Hey everyone,

Im shooting a scene next week in a bar. I'd like to add some smoke to the scene to see the spotlights falling on the tables. Now i could use smoke mashines, but that smoke disappears pretty fast. I've heard there are better/other types of smoke that stays a little longer in the air, does anyone know what that is and where to buy?

Thanks!

Artyom
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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 07:02 PM

Hey everyone,

Im shooting a scene next week in a bar. I'd like to add some smoke to the scene to see the spotlights falling on the tables. Now i could use smoke mashines, but that smoke disappears pretty fast. I've heard there are better/other types of smoke that stays a little longer in the air, does anyone know what that is and where to buy?

Thanks!

Artyom


The main thing is that the room has to be sealed, free of drafts -- then whatever smoke you fill the room with will stick around for awhile, it just that the fog machine-type smoke will come out in clouds and take longer to evenly fill the room. You basically always have to let the smoke dissipate until it reaches all the corners of the space, you can't just evenly haze one area. This means sometimes that you initially use way too much smoke and then wave it around and wait until it evens out.

A better device is called a hazemaker, it puts out more of an even mist and you can let it run during a shot if it is far away enough from the mics. Something like the DF50 machine near the bottom of the page here:
http://specialefxunl...om/FOGSMOKE.htm
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#3 Deniz Coker

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 08:03 PM

Not to hijack the thread, but I was thinking of asking a similar question. I'm shooting a few scenes that require smoke as well, one in a basement where I need flashlight beams visible and one in a smallish dining room where I might add in a shaft of light or two. How reliable is diffuse in a can? Ironically I'm using this exact light and this picture looks pretty weak:
diffuse in a can photo

I've been thinking of trying this and not sure if it helps you too Artyom, but I was hoping if it has decent hang time, I might be able to get a PA to spray it right before we roll and it might hold up enough for a few quick shots. I feel that it might be better in the basement. I found that using a fogger I had to blast the room and have someone constantly waving around some gatorboard to even it out. I'm really hoping though that with diffuse in a can, you can spray it right in the beam path and get decent results. Otherwise I guess we have no choice but to rent a hazer.

Edit: working in bars and restaurants as we are, what's the deal with setting off sprinklers? Any chance we should worry about that?

Edited by Deniz Coker, 02 January 2011 - 08:06 PM.

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#4 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 02 January 2011 - 09:23 PM

Not to hijack the thread, but I was thinking of asking a similar question. I'm shooting a few scenes that require smoke as well, one in a basement where I need flashlight beams visible and one in a smallish dining room where I might add in a shaft of light or two. How reliable is diffuse in a can? Ironically I'm using this exact light and this picture looks pretty weak:
diffuse in a can photo

I've been thinking of trying this and not sure if it helps you too Artyom, but I was hoping if it has decent hang time, I might be able to get a PA to spray it right before we roll and it might hold up enough for a few quick shots. I feel that it might be better in the basement. I found that using a fogger I had to blast the room and have someone constantly waving around some gatorboard to even it out. I'm really hoping though that with diffuse in a can, you can spray it right in the beam path and get decent results. Otherwise I guess we have no choice but to rent a hazer.

Edit: working in bars and restaurants as we are, what's the deal with setting off sprinklers? Any chance we should worry about that?


Smoke in a can is fine for one shot in a sealed small room, but it's not practical for a day of shooting, and no room is completely sealed (if it were, the crew would probably pass out over time after they consumed all the oxygen...) Buy enough cans and you probably could have afforded a fog machine.

Some fire systems are heat sensitive, not smoke sensitive -- those sprinklers you see in ceilings have these little vials that melt in high heat, triggering the water, so they aren't bothered by smoke -- just don't put a hot movie lamp under one.

But smoke detectors are sensitive to smoke of course. In a private home, you can just disconnect a smoke alarm, in a public place, you have to get the help of the building people and maybe even the fire department because the systems are designed to automatically notify the fire department when they go off.
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#5 Deniz Coker

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 04:11 AM

Smoke in a can is fine for one shot in a sealed small room, but it's not practical for a day of shooting, and no room is completely sealed (if it were, the crew would probably pass out over time after they consumed all the oxygen...) Buy enough cans and you probably could have afforded a fog machine.

Some fire systems are heat sensitive, not smoke sensitive -- those sprinklers you see in ceilings have these little vials that melt in high heat, triggering the water, so they aren't bothered by smoke -- just don't put a hot movie lamp under one.

But smoke detectors are sensitive to smoke of course. In a private home, you can just disconnect a smoke alarm, in a public place, you have to get the help of the building people and maybe even the fire department because the systems are designed to automatically notify the fire department when they go off.



I see what you mean. I didn't have very high expectations for it to begin with, but that picture gave me even lower expectations. I'll have to inspect the fire system, it's a morgue turned restaurant from the 1800s but the kitchen leads to the basement so I'm hoping their system is designed to work around smoke and such. Luckily I do have a decent fogger, I was just hoping for a more grab and go solution (I've been trying to avoid lugging it in for such a quick scene). But is a pretty small room so it sounds promising, I'll have to run some tests, it is only for a few minutes of footage. The note about the hot lights under a sprinkler gave me flashbacks to that part in the grip book about using styrofoam cups to deflect heat. Sounds like it would make any fire marshall really happy! I really appreciate your advice and do feel horrible for stealing the thread!
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#6 Artyom Zakharenko

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Posted 03 January 2011 - 06:30 AM

It's allright Deniz :) i don't own the thread, goodluck with ur shoot
David, thanks for your advice,i think i'll use the smoke mashines anyway and try to spread it evenly, that's what we did at the MR stage i remember

happy new year everyone!
artyom
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rebotnix Technologies

Visual Products

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Tai Audio

Abel Cine

Metropolis Post

Opal

Technodolly

CineTape

Wooden Camera

Glidecam

Paralinx LLC

Willys Widgets

Rig Wheels Passport

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Ritter Battery