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16mm Camera with magnetic Pick Up Head


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#1 John Rizzo

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 04:23 PM

Back in the late 60s and through the 1970's News Cameramen used 16mm cameras that recorded 16mm picture and magnetic sound at the same time, they mostly shot Kodak VNF Film. Does anyone know what Brand were these camera's are there any out there for rent?
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#2 Robert Houllahan

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 04:25 PM

Probably Frezzolini's, CP-16's, Auricons others would know better the specific makes and models. The film had a mag stripe applied on the edge.

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#3 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 07:49 PM

Most were some variation on the Auricon "Filmagnetic theme. The filmagnetic superseded the optical sound Auricons.

There are proably CP-16 units around, most likely with the Magnetic heads long Junked. Kodak stopped making Mag Stripe film shortly after the TV industry went to Video cameras.

An Optical Auricon should still be able to record sound, although the electronics are really more for tinkerers than out and out film-makers these days. Many of these units DO have a synchronous motor so they can work with Double system sound.

There is a mailing list out on Auricons...
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#4 John Sprung

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 07:52 PM

There was also an internal mag module for the Arri 16BL, but they're very rare. Dave Rapka had one in the 1970's, but it's the only one I've ever seen.




-- J.S.
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#5 Dom Jaeger

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 08:11 PM

CP-16s (which were based on the Auricon) and 16 BLs were probably the most common magnetic sound cameras (at least here in Australia). The recording module fitted inside the camera cavity between the gate and the magazine port and was removable for non-sound work.

You could probably find some 16BLs for rent, I know a few film schools that still use them. CP16s might be harder to find in good condition. A working magnetic sound module and the amplifier that it required might be the toughest part though, given that mag stripe film has long been discontinued.

We have an optical sound Auricon, a 16BL with a mag sound module and its leather-cased amplifier (which was slung over the shoulder) and a mag sound CP-16 in our museum, but I have no idea if any of them would still work!

From talking with a cameraman who used them, one of the oddities of the system was that the sound was recorded on the film several inches away from the simultaneous image. This meant the sound was always slightly out of step, and editing had to be done using the sound track rather than the image, to avoid cutting off words. Presumably the soundtrack was re-recorded and synched before the news broadcast.
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#6 Simon Wyss

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 04:04 AM

Let us see:

Aaton 7
Arriflex 16 BL
Beaulieu News 16
Berndt-Bach Auricon Cinevoice, Pro 600, Super 1200
Bolex 16 Pro
Canon Scoopic 200 S/SE
Cinema Products 16
Debrie C 16 Sinmor
Eclair ACL
Frezzolini FR 16, LW 16
Mitchell R 16 Single System
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#7 Rolando Fernandez

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 10:54 AM

hi, Auricon, cinema products CP-16 and Frezolini are some of those cameras, I have a Frezolini LW16.
The most widely used is the CP-16 and are still been rent today.
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#8 Mark Dunn

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 03:10 PM

From talking with a cameraman who used them, one of the oddities of the system was that the sound was recorded on the film several inches away from the simultaneous image. This meant the sound was always slightly out of step, and editing had to be done using the sound track rather than the image, to avoid cutting off words. Presumably the soundtrack was re-recorded and synched before the news broadcast.


I've just dated myself by remembering that it wasn't. There were odd sound overlaps. No point shooting single-system in the first place if you're going to take the sound off and re-sync.
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#9 John Sprung

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 03:14 PM

No point shooting single-system in the first place if you're going to take the sound off and re-sync.


For TV news, it seemed to make sense to have a single machine and operator. One guy pushes one button, rather than having to be sure both are rolling or cut.




-- J.S.
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#10 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 08:21 PM

one of the oddities of the system was that the sound was recorded on the film several inches away from the simultaneous image. This meant the sound was always slightly out of step, and editing had to be done using the sound track rather than the image, to avoid cutting off words. Presumably the soundtrack was re-recorded and synched before the news broadcast.


Actually, that is Always the way that sound on film works. The Mag Striped cameras recorded the sound with the right advance for mag stripe projectors/telecine units. The advance is just a bit different thna for optical sound, and the cameras like the auricon that do both tipicaly have two slightly different threading diagrams. (Actually come to think of it - the auricon just has the film pass both positions.)

Cutting to the soundtrack would mean that sometimes the action on the screen would show "silent lips" or that the scene would have to start a few seconds before the subject started talking. maybe that is where we get those "Fred Smith", "XYZ News", "Iqaluit Nunavut" signoffs on news items.
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#11 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 08:00 AM

Let us see:

Aaton 7
Arriflex 16 BL


I don't think the single system Aaton 7 went into production.

Our local broadcasters used single system Arri 16BLs for shooting news and (using double system)programmes, the CP16s were used only for news and current affairs.
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#12 Dave Campbell

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 04:51 PM

Actually, that is Always the way that sound on film works. The Mag Striped cameras recorded the sound with the right advance for mag stripe projectors/telecine units. The advance is just a bit different thna for optical sound, and the cameras like the auricon that do both tipicaly have two slightly different threading diagrams. (Actually come to think of it - the auricon just has the film pass both positions.)

Cutting to the soundtrack would mean that sometimes the action on the screen would show "silent lips" or that the scene would have to start a few seconds before the subject started talking. maybe that is where we get those "Fred Smith", "XYZ News", "Iqaluit Nunavut" signoffs on news items.

My Mitchell SSR16 has a sound on film threading diagram and a 2nd threading diagram for shooting silent.
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#13 K Borowski

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 05:25 PM

Since 16mm mag hasn't been made in dcades tthis conversation is academic. You can either run 16mm with dual-system sound or run optical sound.



I have one with an optical sound recorder. I like the fact that I dont' have to rely on finicky tape suppliers (just finickly film suppliers! :-o ), but the sound is not as good as tape. It actually varies in quality with the film speed. There's another reason, kids, why you shouldn't shoot 7219 in every situation!



But, seriously, there may be a possibility of bringing mag back (didn't someone just recently start offering mag. sound striping in S8, like just a few weeks ago?), but for the current time those mag heads and sound mixing units are just VERY LARGE HEAVY paperweights, sorry.


Other than that the Auricon is a beuatiful tank of a camera that produces rock-steady images, sharp. I still wonder if I can convert mine to S16 or U16, even though it is heavy like a 35mm, and widening the gate would obviously turn it back into a silent camera. I'd love to have some sort of retractable U16 mask so I could shoot R16 sound AND U/S16; probably just a pipe dream.
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#14 ck filmworks

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Posted 21 April 2011 - 04:05 AM

Back in the late 60s and through the 1970's News Cameramen used 16mm cameras that recorded 16mm picture and magnetic sound at the same time, they mostly shot Kodak VNF Film. Does anyone know what Brand were these camera's are there any out there for rent?



I have a CP16mm on sale right now at ebay. I'm actually selling the camera with its sound head where you can record on magnetic-stripped film. I just saw sound film on ebay, too.
http://cgi.ebay.com/...=item45f9c38f35
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