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Canon 1014 XL-S + or - a stop question


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#1 Matt Stevens

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 11:41 AM

I'm very newbie compared to most of you. Super8 started to interest me last year and I have been playing with it. Bought a Canon 814 Automatic and it seized up on the cold. Just bought a really old and cheap Bauer to shoot stuff on for fun.

The Canon 1014 XL-S is available to rent here and I took it out earlier this week to shoot some tests (100D, 200t). Amazing camera to use. Quiet. Got a lot of looks from people on the street (NYC) and many stopped to ask questions.

Now to my question.

Since the Canon reads 500t cartridges as 400, I can use the little 1/3 to full stop adjustment on the side, but do I go + (plus) or do I go - (minus) to get closer to what is needed for 500t film?

Sorry to seem so stupid, but this stuff, despite all my reading (countless hours over six months) still confuses me. What's funny is the guys at the rental house couldn't answer this. They said, "Try it both ways. One will look right." Uh, yeah, thanks. :) Nice guys, by the way. I'm not slamming them.
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#2 Miguel Loredo

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 12:18 PM

Since the Canon reads 500t cartridges as 400, I can use the little 1/3 to full stop adjustment on the side, but do I go + (plus) or do I go - (minus) to get closer to what is needed for 500t film?


Do not adjust anything: Negative film as Vision 500T, has a great latitude to exposure, compared to reversal film. Moreover, negative films achieve better results when they are overexposed (one or more stops). Kodak recommends to expose it's Vision 500T as 320T for best results and definition. Even if you expose it as ASA 200 would be fine.

What is important to say if you are newer, is that Kodak notch it's Vision cartridges as "daylight", to disable automatically the internal filter and screw one directly in the lens if necessary. But if you want to shoot outdoors with Vision film, you might want to cut the filter notch in the cartirdge (with a knife or cutter) in order to enable internal the filter shooting outdoors.

Edited by Miguel Loredo, 22 January 2011 - 12:19 PM.

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#3 Rick Palidwor

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 02:13 PM

Now to my question.

Since the Canon reads 500t cartridges as 400, I can use the little 1/3 to full stop adjustment on the side, but do I go + (plus) or do I go - (minus) to get closer to what is needed for 500t film?

Sorry to seem so stupid, but this stuff, despite all my reading (countless hours over six months) still confuses me. What's funny is the guys at the rental house couldn't answer this. They said, "Try it both ways. One will look right." Uh, yeah, thanks. :) Nice guys, by the way. I'm not slamming them.


Miguel is correct, don't worry about it, but to answer your question so you understand that control for future use on different stocks: If you leave it at "0" the film will be slightly over-exposed so you would set the compensation dial toward the minus side. But note, this dial is intended for automatic exposure shooting only. If you are shooting in manual it is assumed that you have made necessary adjustments.

Rick
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#4 Alessandro Machi

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 04:25 PM

for best results when in automatic mode, try to avoid shooting too much sky in the frame if the sky is brighter than your ground level subjects, such as on hazy, overcast days. If you don't get too much of the sky in your shot, you can actually shoot without the 85 filter since negative transfers are usually done more sophisticated transfer systems that can compensate nicely for the lack of an 85 filter, unless you have a lot of white in your shot, than it could get dicey, especially if it is a white sky.

I am not sure if a white sky is harder to correctly filter than white clothing when an 85 filter is not in place, I do know that white skys without 85 filters seem difficult to get to look correctly, although my experiences are now a few years old and maybe newer techniques have made it a moot point.
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#5 Matt Stevens

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Posted 22 January 2011 - 08:15 PM

A hug thanks to you all for your help. I certainly have a better understanding now.

I'm also going to buy, I think, a Nizo 1048, which correctly reads pretty much all Super8 film available. That will take some guesswork out of the equation. The Canon 1014 XSL-S is what we will use for two different Straight8 projects we want to shoot and enter into the contest.
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#6 Miguel Loredo

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 05:45 PM

A hug thanks to you all for your help. I certainly have a better understanding now.

I'm also going to buy, I think, a Nizo 1048, which correctly reads pretty much all Super8 film available. That will take some guesswork out of the equation. The Canon 1014 XSL-S is what we will use for two different Straight8 projects we want to shoot and enter into the contest.


The Canon 1014 also reads all the films, and I doubt that Nizo is a better camera than the Canon...
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#7 Matt Stevens

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Posted 23 January 2011 - 11:33 PM

The Canon reads 500 as 400, but the Nizo reads everything over 400 properly. Of course the Canon is better, but I can get the Nizo, with a warranty, at a 1/3 or even 1/4 of the price of a tip top Canon 1014 XL-S. My goal is to buy both, but that may be pushing it. I likely cannot afford the 1014 XL-S unless I take a chance and buy one without a warranty. But that's something I won't do.

I can rent a mint Canon 1014 XL-S here in NYC. Did that last week. Will do it again when need be. :)


P.S. I really wish we could edit old posts because I have a stupid typo in an above posting that makes me sound like a weirdo. I don't want to 'hug' anyone here, I promise.

Edited by Matt Stevens, 23 January 2011 - 11:35 PM.

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#8 Miguel Loredo

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Posted 24 January 2011 - 03:45 PM

The Canon reads 500 as 400, but the Nizo reads everything over 400 properly. Of course the Canon is better, but I can get the Nizo, with a warranty, at a 1/3 or even 1/4 of the price of a tip top Canon 1014 XL-S. My goal is to buy both, but that may be pushing it. I likely cannot afford the 1014 XL-S unless I take a chance and buy one without a warranty. But that's something I won't do.

I can rent a mint Canon 1014 XL-S here in NYC. Did that last week. Will do it again when need be. :)


P.S. I really wish we could edit old posts because I have a stupid typo in an above posting that makes me sound like a weirdo. I don't want to 'hug' anyone here, I promise.


Don't consider this a disadvantage because 400-500 in ASA is almost no difference (less than 1/3 of stop which you could correct with the +-dial if you want) and using negative film it's even more unnoticeable. The thing is that there is no 500 ASA notch in the Super8 system. The same happens with Vision 200T or Tri-X 200: there's no 200 ASA, just 160 or 250.

With the Vision 500T shoot at it's maximum ASA 500 only if you really need it because there's no light at all, but if you can, expose it as 250 or 320 for better results (Kodak advice).
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#9 Matt Stevens

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Posted 24 January 2011 - 10:17 PM

Excellent information. Perhaps I should go for a Canon 1014 Auto Zoom? Minus the now useless sound functions and yes, some useful video functions, but it does read the same stocks and is highly respected as far as Super8's go. For much less than the 1014 XL-S. The 814 Automatic I had was awesome (while it lasted).

I could likely afford to get one in tip top shape and get it tuned if need be.
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#10 Rick Palidwor

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Posted 24 January 2011 - 10:55 PM

For myself, since I rarely shoot in auto, all of this is a non-issue. What matters most is to know what your camera meter "thinks" the stock is and to then compensate accordingly.

And for the record, I don't think I'd go with that Nizo. I could be wrong but it might be part of a Nizo series that had rubber belts, so it would run quieter, but the rubber disintegrates. Since money seems to be an issue I would consider any of the mid-range Canons, like the 814 auto-zoom (plain AZ or newer "E" version) or even something in their 518 model range. Nice optics and reliable.

Also, Nikon 8X super zoom is a personal favourite. Nice optics, reads many film speeds and most importantly, if the internal light meter breaks you can strill control the aperture (just use an external meter).

Rick
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#11 Matt Stevens

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 08:33 AM

Thanks to all who helped me out. As it turns out, I was able to snag a Nikon R10 for $290 shipped. Condition looks to be great, the owner seems to know his stuff and if he' telling a fib, Pay-Pal will protect me.

I never thought I'd be able to afford the R10 but I just got lucky. Can't wait to get it!
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#12 Miguel Loredo

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Posted 26 January 2011 - 10:48 AM

The Canon 1014 Autozoom Electronic has a great advantage over the later XL-S model: It has variable shutter (150º, 75º. 37,5º), something that I really miss in the XL-S, which only has the 150º and 220º for extra-light.

Edited by Miguel Loredo, 26 January 2011 - 10:49 AM.

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