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Ikonoskop closes own forum


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#1 Kurt August

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 08:01 AM

Now that they have finished their camera they close the forum on their own website. How does this make sense? Not a good sign to me. Don't they believe in their product anymore?
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#2 daniel mahlknecht

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Posted 29 January 2011 - 08:14 AM

At least they have not deleted the posts sent until now, even the critical ones not.

Probably some problems habe appeared after the first cameras have been delivered (like sensor calibration ecc.) and they are buissy and want to resolve them, without having to reply to posts speculating on what is going on.

They say they will answer to every direct email within 30 hours (indeed in the past they have answered my questions very quickly).Actually this seems to me more work than post general answes on a forum, but i'm not to experienced in moderating a forum..

daniel
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#3 Otis Grapsas

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Posted 30 January 2011 - 12:48 PM

I wish Ikonoskop would spend some time on communication and support. Many know I have worked with Kodak sensors including the one Ikonoskop uses, and the result is I'm getting a large number of emails from Ikonoskop customers regarding technical issues. A F.A.Q. is not much work and I'm not on their payroll, correct?

I respond by presenting the scientific facts about of this Kodak issue which all fast multitap CCD implementations have to solve at some point. Many large scientific sensors require this calibration, most new Kodak and a few Sony sensors also need it. Basically it's like having multiple cameras that assemble a single output, one corner each. Even small differences due to analog electronics (support circuitry, CCD) will show. You calibrate each camera body in the factory using your calibration apparatus and intellectual property and hope it's a solid approach that produces good results. I have struggled for more than 8 months working on this calibration issue, so I don't blame anyone having problems with it. In the vision industry, a method that gets good results is considered very valuable and a very unique differentiation point. It even evolves into a unique selling proposition depending on the application requirements.

When a part of my reponse was published in the Ikonoskop forum by a greek filmmaker and their first customer was asked to perform some tests to see how important the problem is, they shut down the forum. I guess you can blame me for the forum shutdown. Anyway, attempting to stop the flow of information is not the engineering approach, it's the politician approach which always messes things up.

They should:

1) Aknowledge the problem so that nobody thinks they are hiding something.
2) Explain the problem specifics because you can only combat fear with information.
3) Propose a solution and schedule any service or updates if needed.

If it's normal to have this deviation in calibration at 0dB gain that's also a valid approach. Let the people know it's up to spec. Each manufacturer have their own standards and I have seen worse in some very expensive Kodak implementations.

A great car manufacturing company is not great because the cars are always perfect in every single component and part of the design, it's because when a problem appears they handle it professionally. Faulty tires, cars that spontaneously combust, we will buy again as long as it is handled professionally.
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#4 Paul Spurrier

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Posted 06 February 2011 - 12:21 AM

Dear Otis,

It's sort of ironic, isn't it?

In the past you have been shut down from a forum.
This time you shut down the forum.

:)

Of course you are right about the Ikonoskop approach to the calibration problem.
What we all want to know is:
Do they recognize that there is a calibration problem?
Are they able to fix it?

Until those questions are answered, it would be rather foolish for anyone to buy the camera.

Regarding forums:

The Red forum often drives me mad.
There's constant fawning - "Oh Jim, you're so wonderful"
And anyone who presents a criticism, however valid, is demonized.
However, one must say that Jim Jannard takes the forum very seriously, makes very regular postings, and generally
understands its value.

Ikonoskop have a strange and disturbing lack of interest in their forum.
There seems to be a certain arrogance in their approach that is a little off-putting to potential customers.

Their FAQ is far from comprehensive.
If they updated this, they might find that they would not have so many questions on the forum.

For example, the Kodak sensor is capable of shooting at 60fps, and their claimed datarate should be able to support that.
But the current firmware does not allow changing the fps or the shutter speed.
It is generally anticipated that these functions will come in a firmware upgrade.
But the fact that these functions aren't already there creates concern that there might be a problem with their datarate.
They haven't done anything to dismiss that concern.



But, on the subject of forums and information, when is your Drama website going to be up and running?
We used to go to DVinfo for your thread, but that's no longer.
We've emailed each other lots, and I must say that you've always provided very comprehensive and helpful responses.
But it would be great to share that info with others interested in your Drama project.

All the best,

Paul

Edited by Paul Spurrier, 06 February 2011 - 12:22 AM.

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#5 Otis Grapsas

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 01:54 AM

Hello Paul,

I had some requests for the technical info that got lost on dvxuser, on DOF vs aperture and sensor size comparisons and similar. I hope to put that part of the site up soon. It needed a lot of text and quite a few graphic images.

The first DII customer is spending quite a lot of time on doing Ikonoskop's job. According to two accounts, Kristjan-Jaak Nuudi ESC will even demonstrate the camera to you live on Skype using a webcam! He also put two clips on youtube but he removed one so I din't get to see it.

This is the one that survived (1080p vesion available):



I don't see any change from the early demos, obvious false color pink highlights on the roof. And every clip from the camera is only a couple of seconds, I don't know why.

This is the vimeo clip that contained the calibration error traces reported on their forum:



The text mentions "sound is still enabled, so no sound jet." I believe that should read "sound is still disabled so no sound yet" ?.

I'm following digital cinema closely but in the case of Ikonoskop one has to really hunt for info. Since they are selling it they should let people know what works today.
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#6 Otis Grapsas

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 03:57 PM

I made a post on the train clip vimeo page that answered the dynamic range question for this Kodak KAI-02150 CCD (slightly below 11 stops in ideal case scenario without white balance and at 0dB gain). I got attacked for it and it got deleted :rolleyes:

Ikonoskop shouldn't have sold their first camera to this guy. IMHO he damages the project every single day with the attacks and the post deleting and clip removal. Those who have the privilege to use something new should present information and answer to questions. This is why I would never get the first camera of any camera model. Too much work! Imagine owning the first Red Scarlet 2/3" and being the only owner for a month or two. Instant celebrity status and paparazzi on your doorstep B)

I got some hate mail that claimed this guy is actually working for Red or me. I'm pretty sure that's not the case but I understand how some people might be led to this conclusion. It makes sense.

This market has a lot of drama. I don't get it. This niche is a very small market, a few dozens of cameras, a couple of hundred perhaps. Ikonoskop would barely cover development and support expenses if they took 100% of it. It can't be the money. It must be the enthusiasm.
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#7 Manuel Lopez

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Posted 22 April 2011 - 02:37 PM

The Ikonoskop forum is open again. :rolleyes:
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#8 Kristjan Jaak Nuudi

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 07:57 PM

I made a post on the train clip vimeo page that answered the dynamic range question for this Kodak KAI-02150 CCD (slightly below 11 stops in ideal case scenario without white balance and at 0dB gain). I got attacked for it and it got deleted :rolleyes:

Ikonoskop shouldn't have sold their first camera to this guy. IMHO he damages the project every single day with the attacks and the post deleting and clip removal. Those who have the privilege to use something new should present information and answer to questions. This is why I would never get the first camera of any camera model. Too much work! Imagine owning the first Red Scarlet 2/3" and being the only owner for a month or two. Instant celebrity status and paparazzi on your doorstep B)

I got some hate mail that claimed this guy is actually working for Red or me. I'm pretty sure that's not the case but I understand how some people might be led to this conclusion. It makes sense.

This market has a lot of drama. I don't get it. This niche is a very small market, a few dozens of cameras, a couple of hundred perhaps. Ikonoskop would barely cover development and support expenses if they took 100% of it. It can't be the money. It must be the enthusiasm.



Hi Otis,

I think If I brought something that does not mean I have to answer all of Your question, I did not made this camera I just brought it, You are attacking them, so I do not see the reason really to reply You more. It is what it is and I'm happy with it! very happy!
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#9 Takahiro Kondo

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Posted 22 May 2014 - 02:05 PM

Since the official Ikonoskop forums is no more and the new official one hosted by rawcinemashop is so official and its original content erased...

 

Here is a new unofficial one:

 

http://otherikonosko...freeforums.biz/

 

Hopefully, other A-Cam users and owners will join?


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