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35mm post production questions telecine/sound settings


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#1 Michael Fix

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Posted 05 March 2011 - 03:09 PM

Thank you for all the great info on this thread and on this forum in general. Have been lurking for awhile but now have reason to post and hope that I can learn a bit more. Considered posting on the thread related to 16mm post workflow but wasn't sure if it would receive as many views - hope this is the correct etiquette.

Background info - we are in the final stages of pre-prod for a 90min feature shooting in Brasil; start filming March 15th. We're shooting on the Penelope, 3 perf (Kodak 5219 500T & 5207 250D). I am trying to communicate to the lab (the language challenge is a hurdle...) that we want a one light or best light transfer of all of the material to SD and also ask for ProRes 422 files as we will be editing with FCP. We will take our EDL and do a 2k scan and output back to film. The good news is that nothing has been shot yet and I can make all the right decisions as far as settings, etc... unfortunately we have not locked with an editor or post production supervisor yet so I am filling this role and therefore would appreciate any assistance/opinions on the questions related to our sound settings and telecine listed below.

1) Sound timecode - 29,97fps, 23.98fps, 25fps, 30fps or 24fps
2) Drop frame vs non-drop
3) TC standard: 29.97fps vs 25fps
4) Digi Beta, DVCam, miniDV, DVD, etc (HDCam-SR is not an option apparently)
5) Timecode for: Camera roll, lab roll and/or tape. (If tape - what sequence 1:00, :30 or :15)
6) Choices for info included in TC: Audio Date, Aux TC, Daily Roll, Key Code, Pull Down, Video TC, Audio TC, Camera ID, Foot & Frame, Lab Roll, Video Tape.
7) Flex File: Yes/No? - Frequency choices: roll, day, week, month, final.

My plan is to request the following BUT I am far from the expert on answering these questions. Simply looking for the smoothest post workflow given our plans.
1) 29.97
2) Non-drop
3) 29.97
4) MiniDV - or does DVCam make more sense?
5) No clue.
6) Was going to ask for: Daily Roll, Key Code, Pull Down, Video TC, Audio TC - but very uncertain what to keep in/out.
7) Intend to request Flex File but was not certain of best frequency.

I would greatly appreciate any insight you wise folks have to offer. Happy to answer questions, and provide additional details. Thanks in advance.

PS. I apologize if this info was covered elsewhere but I did not find specifics so... here I am.
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#2 John Sprung

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 01:26 AM

1) Sound timecode - 29,97fps, 23.98fps, 25fps, 30fps or 24fps

First you have to decide your picture frame rate. If you want to work in the nominal 24 fps mode, what is most typical is to do 23.976 on picture and 29.97 on sound. European style I believe is 25 fps for both.

2) Drop frame vs non-drop

Non-drop. There is no drop code at 24 or 25 fps, because the dropping algorithms for 24 are too complex, and because the 25 fps systems are true 25.000 fps, so there's no need for it. Mixing drop and non-drop is a pain, because the offsets shift.

3) TC standard: 29.97fps vs 25fps

This is your call, as under #1, are you working U.S. or European style?

4) Digi Beta, DVCam, miniDV, DVD, etc (HDCam-SR is not an option apparently)

You'll probably want to go to one of the tape formats from telecine, it'll depend on your offline equipment vendor and your telecine vendor. Get all the post vendors together in a pre-production meeting to coordinate it all.

5) Timecode for: Camera roll, lab roll and/or tape. (If tape - what sequence 1:00, :30 or :15)

Generate new time code for each telecine roll, with the hour number equal to the roll number for rolls 1-20. Start over with hour 1 on roll 21 and so forth to hour 20 on roll 40, then again hour 1 on roll 41, and so forth if you go that far. Syncing sound happens in telecine, so have your sound time code carried in VITC.

6) Choices for info included in TC: Audio Date, Aux TC, Daily Roll, Key Code, Pull Down, Video TC, Audio TC, Camera ID, Foot & Frame, Lab Roll, Video Tape.

Time code user bits aren't used very much. All of the above can be better handled in flex files. You may want to inclued window burns in your video, particularly if it's letterboxed, you can put them in the black bars. Dailies roll TC, Sound TC, and KeyCode are the things to have.

7) Flex File: Yes/No? - Frequency choices: roll, day, week, month, final.

Yes, absolutely necessary. Flex files are how you trace from your video offline EDL back to keycode and the camera original. They also give you a trace back to production sound. Make a flex file for each telecine tape. Make both Flex and Avid files, it's not much more work, and gives you both major formats. Keep a 3.5" floppy of the files with each telecine tape.





-- J.S.
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#3 Michael Fix

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 12:48 PM

Thanks John.
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Aerial Filmworks

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The Slider

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