Jump to content


Photo

Aspect ratio for Super 16mm


  • Please log in to reply
10 replies to this topic

#1 Ryan H

Ryan H

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 26 April 2011 - 01:18 PM

Hi there.

I was wondering if the Arri SR2 is capable of shooting in a 4:3 aspect ratio, as opposed to its native 16:9 ratio. If it is possible, how does one go about shooting in 4:3?

Thanks for any help.
  • 0

#2 Francesco Bonomo

Francesco Bonomo
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 366 posts
  • 1st Assistant Camera
  • currently in Rome, Italy

Posted 26 April 2011 - 02:18 PM

I was wondering if the Arri SR2 is capable of shooting in a 4:3 aspect ratio, as opposed to its native 16:9 ratio


Actually, if I'm not mistaken, I think the original native ratio of the Sr2 gate was 4:3, but all the cameras I've seen or worked with had been converted to S16. So, I guess, if you manage to find an "unconverted" one, you can shoot "regular" 16mm in 4:3.
  • 0

#3 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 7117 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 26 April 2011 - 02:54 PM

Or if you can lay your hands on an SR3; it's swapable between N16mm (4x3) and S16mm (16x9).
Another option would be to look towards older cameras which are still in good service, such as the SR1, Eclair ACL and Eclair NPR as well as the CP16 which may not have been converted but are still quiet enough for sync sound. I believe Aaton LTR-7's also came in N16mm, though i'm not 100% on that as most all Aatons I've seen have been S16mm.
  • 0

#4 Mitch Gross

Mitch Gross
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 2873 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 26 April 2011 - 03:10 PM

You just need the appropriate groundglass. 1.33 is inside of 1.66 on a Super-16 camera. They share a common height and only the sides of frame change. It depends on whether the conversion of a particular camera allows for recentering or not for an appropriate groundglass.
  • 0

#5 Ryan H

Ryan H

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 27 April 2011 - 12:19 PM

Thanks for the replies guys. Instead of changing the groundglass (which I'm told is expensive), or renting a different camera with a 4:3 aspect ratio, how could I go about shooting 4:3 with the SR2? Anything I can do to the viewfinder or when framing the shot?

Thanks again for the help.
  • 0

#6 Ryan H

Ryan H

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 27 April 2011 - 01:45 PM

Or could I just block off the left and right sides of the lens with black wrap or something?
  • 0

#7 Stuart Brereton

Stuart Brereton
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 3065 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 27 April 2011 - 03:54 PM

Thanks for the replies guys. Instead of changing the groundglass (which I'm told is expensive), or renting a different camera with a 4:3 aspect ratio, how could I go about shooting 4:3 with the SR2? Anything I can do to the viewfinder or when framing the shot?

Thanks again for the help.


As a rough guide, you can use the TV safe markings on the left and right of frame. If you shoot a 4:3 framing guide centered in the 1.66:1 frame, you'll soon get an idea of where your 4:3 frame lines should be.

Or could I just block off the left and right sides of the lens with black wrap or something?


Don't bother even attempting this. The only place for a hard matte is in the gate. Just shoot the full s16 aperture, and then crop in post.
  • 0

#8 Patrick Cooper

Patrick Cooper
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 868 posts
  • Other

Posted 01 June 2011 - 08:09 PM

I was wondering if the Arri SR2 is capable of shooting in a 4:3 aspect ratio, as opposed to its native 16:9 ratio.


I thought that the aspect ratio of Super 16mm was 15:9? Of course close enough to the HD aspect ratio of 16:9 which is very convenient when doing HD trasnfers. Correct me if I'm wrong.
  • 0

#9 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 19759 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 01 June 2011 - 08:18 PM

If this is for a 16mm contact print, you just need a groundglass with the 4x3 area in the proper position even if the camera is exposing Super-16. If for a video transfer, the side-to-side position doesn't matter, just transfer a 4x3 area though of course a 4x3 groundglass will help you compose for 4x3 extraction consistently.

The 16mm camera aperture is sometimes listed as:
10.26 x 7.49mm = 1.37 : 1

The Super-16 camera aperture is sometimes listed as:
12.52 x 7.41mm = 1.69 : 1

However, I believe there was some variation among manufacturers.
  • 0

#10 timHealy

timHealy
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1252 posts
  • Other
  • New York

Posted 21 June 2011 - 10:37 AM

Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to recall that if one truly wanted to go back to regular 16 on an Super 16 SR 1, 2 or 3, the lens mount had to be flipped 180 degrees, or turned is a better word, to recenter the lens for the proper 1.33 ground glass.

I never got my SR upgraded to Super 16 but I thought that was one of the steps. Of course I may be splitting hairs. Re-centering the lens moves the lens a miniscule amount, but projected may lead to slight deformities in the image. Not that I would be able to tell.

And of course shooting in Super 16 mode while using the 1.33 ground glass gives one a bit of reframing room left and right if need be in digital post. So maybe re-centering is a moot point.

Best

Tim

Edited by timHealy, 21 June 2011 - 10:38 AM.

  • 0

#11 Dom Jaeger

Dom Jaeger
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1599 posts
  • Other
  • Melbourne, Australia

Posted 21 June 2011 - 10:15 PM

Unless it's for a contact print a S16 ground glass with 1.33 markings is all you need, the framed area can be extracted in post. Most established rental houses would have such a ground glass, perhaps as a combo with 1.66 or 1.78. There are ways of marking an SR ground glass yourself using non-residue contact adhesive, but it's fiddly and may not be accurate.

If a print is needed, the best option is to re-centre the mount to Standard and use a Standard 16 ground glass with 1.33 markings. Some early Super 16 SRs had fixed mounts, but most are dual - you simply remove the mount and turn it 180 degrees (and move the locating pin back to top right). It's a good idea to have the flange depth and flatness checked afterwards, though.

If a print is needed, but converting the camera back to Standard is impractical, it is possible to keep the camera in Super but frame with a Standard 16 1.33 ground glass. The only issue is that the lenses will not be centred to the image area - wide angle distortions will be offset and zooms will track off to one side.
  • 0


Ritter Battery

CineLab

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Visual Products

Tai Audio

Wooden Camera

Abel Cine

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

FJS International, LLC

Glidecam

Aerial Filmworks

Willys Widgets

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

rebotnix Technologies

The Slider

Opal

Metropolis Post

Rig Wheels Passport

CineTape

Technodolly

Paralinx LLC

Technodolly

Rig Wheels Passport

Wooden Camera

FJS International, LLC

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Visual Products

Glidecam

Tai Audio

Paralinx LLC

Willys Widgets

rebotnix Technologies

The Slider

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Ritter Battery

Opal

Abel Cine

CineTape

Metropolis Post

CineLab

Aerial Filmworks

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS