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Cross Process ECN2 vs C41


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#1 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 03 May 2011 - 09:38 PM

I'm working on a personal project with 100D 7285 having to do with intense colors and motion. I'm considering having the films cross processed. But before i make that decision, next time I shoot Super 8 I'm also going shoot some E100VS 35mm stills and have those cross processed first, as a preview of what to expect. The E100VS is the same stock as 100D but the negative process would be different for the stills than with MP. I'm wondering how close the results would be between the 35mm C41 stills vs the ECN2 of the Super 8 with everything else constant?
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#2 James Compton

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Posted 04 May 2011 - 04:53 PM

Anthony,


Have a look at this:

https://www.cameragu...the-limits.aspx

These extensive tests should answer your questions. Looking at the example pictures, I'm seeing that C-41 provides a more contrasty and slightly desaturated image. The color yellow doesn't register on the color chart.
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#3 K Borowski

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 01:33 PM

Saying something is contrasty but then desaturated is like saying something is white and then saying that it is black.


Contrast and saturation go hand in hand.


C-41 IS contrastier, and, as such more saturated but the difference is subtle.




Anthony, i know you like to experiment, but get the project done, find whichever is cheaper and the difference will be so subtle that it can be tweaked out in timing anyway. Go for the option you can get the better price per foot on. I work with both of these processes and would be happy to have your business!



~Karl Borowski

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Cleveland, OH
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#4 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 06:33 PM

Saying something is contrasty but then desaturated is like saying something is white and then saying that it is black.
Contrast and saturation go hand in hand.


Contrast is a function of relative Black & White levels, or luminance if you prefer. Color is not a factor. If it were, all black & white photos would be very flat.
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#5 K Borowski

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 07:32 AM

Stuart, instead of trying to be the biggest cock of the roost, howabout not copy-pasting something from somewhere and contributing?
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#6 Stuart Brereton

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 01:01 PM

howabout not copy-pasting something from somewhere and contributing?



I will if you will.
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#7 James Compton

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 01:22 PM

Karl,


Compare crossprocessed FUJI VELVIA and a Bleach Bypassed ECN-2 film print. Both create contrasty images, yet one has less color saturation than the other.
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#8 Daniel Lee

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Posted 18 May 2011 - 05:16 AM

To quote Wikipedia;

"Colorfulness is the difference between a color against gray. Chroma is the colorfulness relative to the brightness of another color which appears white under similar viewing conditions. Saturation is the colorfulness of a color relative to its own brightness"
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#9 Daniel Lee

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 07:14 PM

And for the record, ECN-2 uses CD-3, while C-41 uses CD-4.

CD-3 provides a bit higher saturation with the dyes produced, while CD-4 a bit lower, but a broader spectral width of dyes produced.
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#10 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 09:13 PM

I got my 35mm E100VS stills back in digital form. The color intensity is good, but the highlights are too bright on a lot of the shots. There is also the usual green hue I see on most cross processed stills, but that can be fixed. Thinking of just going with the standard E6 processing for this project. Here's a sample exposed at box speed C-41. I also shot the same scenes 1 stop over and didn't see much of a difference.

Posted Image

Edited by Anthony Schilling, 26 May 2011 - 09:15 PM.

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#11 Ben Syverson

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 09:37 PM

Karl is right... saturation IS color contrast.

If you take a low-saturation image and increase the contrast, the saturation will shoot up.

Bleach bypass has high overall contrast yet low color contrast, which is why it looks so distinctive. But no color negative film is anywhere near that divorced from reality. In fact, aside from slight differences in characteristic curves and even more slight differences in spectral sensitivity, all modern color negatives behave pretty similarly. At the very least, none of them are so extreme that they can't be acceptably matched to each other by a skilled colorist. That includes ECN2 to C41.
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#12 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 12:37 AM

Here's another sample, the first untouched, the second with a little CC.I did nothing with the contrast.

Posted Image

Posted Image
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