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Need Help Identifying Super 8 Transfer Issues


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#1 Chris Fernando

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Posted 20 May 2011 - 10:09 PM

So I recieved a Cineform HD S8 transfer I had done recently to quicktimes. The transfer house shall remain nameless, for the time being, as I'm hoping you all can help me with what I am looking at.

First off despite asking for pillar-boxing they have somehow managed to do some sort of full frame transfer (leaving half a sprocket hole in frame?), the other (bigger) issue, however, is the color. This was a Fuji (Pro8) daylight load, metered with a calibrated hand-held meter. I've attached a transfer that Justin over at Frame Discreet did for me earlier this year with the same camera, (different stock though). I've never seen what negative film transferred on a machine set up for reversal looks like, but I don't know how to explain the odd colors. Anyone?

I'd like to make sure this isn't operator error before I pass judgement, but the framing leaves me a bit leery and the colors; ohhh the colors...



Frame Discreet_Screen Grab.JPG

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#2 Chris Burke

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Posted 21 May 2011 - 09:27 AM

what kind of machine was it transferred on? If the telecine or scanner wasn't intended for negative transfer that could be part of your problem. The colors look flat as does the overall exposure, this isn't really a bad thing at all as you can grade it to suit. Perhaps the colorist did a "flat" pass in order to give you as much wiggle room as possible. Looks to me as you have lots of it. I would ask for a retransfer, they didn't get the framing right and you aren't happy with the look, so redo. Any tk house worth their salt will do it again for free. If not, there are loads of other out there who want your business. So call them up and ask for a do over.
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#3 Kent Kumpula

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Posted 22 May 2011 - 12:52 AM

I´m also curious about what machine did the transfer. A re-built old projector or a proper telecine machine?
If it was done on a old projector I wouldn´t send the film back for a retransfer, what if the projector would end up scratching your negative filmoriginals (they are quite sensitive and should not be run through a projector, IMHO).

However, if the job was not done on a projector, there is no question you should send it back to them for a free re-transfer. They cut off parts of your film, parts you wanted included in the transfer. Anyone can make a mistake, they are after all humans too. The important thing is how they react when the error is pointed out and how they intend to correct the mistake.
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#4 Roberto Pirodda

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 01:43 AM

why to underestimate rebuilt old projector ? If it is clean and the transportation system brushes only the edges, the image area never will be scratched. A telecine machine after all is only a sprocketless continuous transportation system with a macro lens and a camera, but costs thousands more over a rebuilt projector. The most job is done by operator/colorist...

Rob

Edited by Roberto Pirodda, 25 May 2011 - 01:44 AM.

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#5 Kent Kumpula

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Posted 25 May 2011 - 02:53 AM

Because all old projectors that I know of have a gate and a pressure plate, and they are not as gentle with filmhandling (if you compare it with a proper telecine machine).
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#6 daniel mahlknecht

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 09:01 AM

in my opinion this was not a rebuilt projector, as you hardly will be able to capture this much of the perforation.
I use a rebuilt BAUER t610 projector with open gate and telecine fälker components for transfer, and I come close to show that much of the perforation, but only close.
The issue is probably that you did an HD transfer, and HD (in this mashines at least) can do only 16:9 transfers witch gives 2 options.

1. crop the picture to 16:9 (loose inmge information)
2. have a lateral letterbox and in this case seeing the perforation but not loosing any part of the image

I have done also transfers from negative and using a simple setup like I do will result in flat colors.

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#7 Kent Kumpula

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Posted 29 May 2011 - 03:42 PM

in my opinion this was not a rebuilt projector, as you hardly will be able to capture this much of the perforation.


I´d say it depends on the projector. You cannot come to any kind of conclusion based on how much of the perforation is visible.

The issue is probably that you did an HD transfer, and HD (in this mashines at least) can do only 16:9 transfers witch gives 2 options.

1. crop the picture to 16:9 (loose inmge information)
2. have a lateral letterbox and in this case seeing the perforation but not loosing any part of the image


All HD formats are 16:9,so any machine delivering HD transfers will deliver 16:9, because 16:9 is the only available HD standard. So that is not the problem.

And as far as I can understand it he specifically asked for your option number 2, not loosing any parts of the image and having black bars on both sides of the image. But he received something in between the options 1 and 2, not quite zoomed in to fill the 16:9 area and not fully receiving the whole image area.

Edited by Kent Kumpula, 29 May 2011 - 03:42 PM.

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#8 Chris Fernando

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 01:45 PM

I´d say it depends on the projector. You cannot come to any kind of conclusion based on how much of the perforation is visible.



All HD formats are 16:9,so any machine delivering HD transfers will deliver 16:9, because 16:9 is the only available HD standard. So that is not the problem.

And as far as I can understand it he specifically asked for your option number 2, not loosing any parts of the image and having black bars on both sides of the image. But he received something in between the options 1 and 2, not quite zoomed in to fill the 16:9 area and not fully receiving the whole image area.


Exactly! This was supposedly a full gate HD transfer on a (Moviestuff) Sniper DV8 HD. But I specifically asked for pillar-boxing; of course they had never heard the term pillar-boxing based on the silence over the phone when I asked why it wasn't done. They couldn't give me any camera/CCD info for their machine (this was the "colorist/tech" that couldn't tell me this either). They couldn't even answer whether this was a flat pass or not - scary stuff, but it seems, once again, you get what you pay for when it comes to transfers.

By the way, they completely raked the negative as well - these guys give QC a whole new meaning! They've offered to refund the money for the transfer with very little resistance, so I'd prefer not to mention any names, but in keeping with their usual way of doing things they haven't followed through on that either.
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#9 Kent Kumpula

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 05:40 PM

Clearly it sounds like someone who has no clue about what they are doing. A good thing that you are getting the money back (if they manage to send you the money...).
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