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Need Help with Night Exteriors with RED One


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#1 Ron Ruanphae

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 09:49 AM

Hi Everyone

Im pretty new to this forum and I thought this would be a great place to get some great insight. Im a recent cinematography graduate (still so much to learn) and was asked to shoot a short film with a RED One that belongs to the director. This would be the first time for me using the RED. The short film is entirely night ext. in a forest. Fortunately it will be a full moon those days, but my main concern is if the One ton grip truck that they've rented will be sufficient enough to get a good exposure. The biggest lights we have would probably be 2 2k Fresnels. Im not exactly sure what to rate the camera. Im assuming at a 320ASA the 2Ks wont be enough? Any suggestions or insights? Thanks in Advance.
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#2 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 10:21 AM

It really depends on size of the area you're going to light, but assuming you're going for a moonlight effect with CTB gels, there's a very good chance that the 2ks wouldn't be enough. Another factor is how wide an aperture your lenses are going to have.

The moon itself won't any influence on the exposure at the light levels you're working at with the RED.

What you rate the camera at will depend on how you personally feel about the noise levels at a particular ISO. Some people object to the noise more than others, since it's the director's camera you should run some tests and see how far you want to go.

Assuming you're filming a reasonably large area, the alternatives are use day for night, dusk for night or rent some HMIs. However, you could put the blue into you scenes during post, although the RED does tend to be nosier under tungsten. This would give you a bit more light output from your lights. I'd tend to go for a few more lights anyway, 2 x 2ks isn't that much in a forest where trees tend to block the light carrying that far and having more units would allow you to work in depth.

Generator noise is another consideration if you're doing dialogue scenes.
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#3 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 10:25 AM

Was the director's Red One updated with the M-X sensor?
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#4 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 11:26 AM

Another light I've found very useful in night shooting has been the PAR 64 with either VNSP or NSP bulbs in it. Bright and Punchy, and most importantly cheap to rent/buy. This would work best, of course, if you're not going for a full on moonlight effect but more of a, motivated by street-lights ect effect.
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#5 Ron Ruanphae

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 03:32 PM

Thanks for the quick responses.

Hi David: No unfortunately the Camera(s) havent been updated with the MX. I was hoping they would be.

Brian: Yeah those were my initial thoughts. Unfortunately it would be a reasonably large area. A forest/trailer park next to a lake. For this particular piece (period piece, vikings)I would think a subtle level of grain would really serve the story. I havent really seen the noise levels on the red that much. My hopes were to film it as clean as possible and go through some grain management in DI process. I've thought about Day for night. But im afraid I havent had any experience doing DFN to feel comfortable with it and having it appear realistic enough. I think I would feel safer shooting in the dark with a substantial amount of light. Are they're any great examples of DFN with the RED?

Unfortunately the production have made arrangements before I could say anything about the type of truck we needed. They are currently using 2 RED Ones and a one ton grip truck.

My initial thoughts were to try and convince them to drop one of the REDs and use that money towards renting some either 2 Dinos, 2 Maxi Brutes, or 2 Nine lights (or however many needed) and a genny to accompany them. My thoughts were to light the scene with those lights and shoot them through a 8x8 or 12x12 light grid for ambient and key light. (still new to all this) Do you guys think this would be a great approach?

(maybe also convince them to rent an RED MX instead of lights) trying to find the right compromise.

Thanks again!
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#6 Ron Ruanphae

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Posted 26 May 2011 - 03:34 PM

Thanks for the quick responses.

Hi David: No unfortunately the Camera(s) havent been updated with the MX. I was hoping they would be.

Brian: Yeah those were my initial thoughts. Unfortunately it would be a reasonably large area. A forest/trailer park next to a lake. For this particular piece (period piece, vikings)I would think a subtle level of grain would really serve the story. I havent really seen the noise levels on the red that much. My hopes were to film it as clean as possible and go through some grain management in DI process. I've thought about Day for night. But im afraid I havent had any experience doing DFN to feel comfortable with it and having it appear realistic enough. I think I would feel safer shooting in the dark with a substantial amount of light. Are they're any great examples of DFN with the RED?

Unfortunately the production have made arrangements before I could say anything about the type of truck we needed. They are currently using 2 RED Ones and a one ton grip truck.

My initial thoughts were to try and convince them to drop one of the REDs and use that money towards renting some either 2 Dinos, 2 Maxi Brutes, or 2 Nine lights (or however many needed) and a genny to accompany them. My thoughts were to light the scene with those lights and shoot them through a 8x8 or 12x12 light grid for ambient and key light. (still new to all this) Do you guys think this would be a great approach?

(maybe also convince them to rent an RED MX instead of lights) trying to find the right compromise.

Adrian: Ill definitely look into those PARs. Thanks for the Advice.

Thanks again!


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#7 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 02:07 AM

My initial thoughts were to try and convince them to drop one of the REDs and use that money towards renting some either 2 Dinos, 2 Maxi Brutes, or 2 Nine lights (or however many needed) and a genny to accompany them. My thoughts were to light the scene with those lights and shoot them through a 8x8 or 12x12 light grid for ambient and key light. (still new to all this) Do you guys think this would be a great approach?


You need powerful lights if you're going through light grids to cover a large area. Commonly you end up using a hard back light (ideally with some height using a hoist) for the area and soft lighting in the foreground. There are many ways you can do this, but it does come down to your budget.
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#8 Marcus Joseph

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Posted 27 May 2011 - 10:30 AM

Check out Winter's Bone, I swear I thought that was shot on film, it looked stunning. Good examples of moon/day for night.
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Wooden Camera

Metropolis Post

Opal

Tai Audio

Glidecam

Abel Cine

Broadcast Solutions Inc

The Slider

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

rebotnix Technologies

Paralinx LLC

Aerial Filmworks

Technodolly

Willys Widgets