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Super Baltar and Kowas


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#1 Michael Schroers

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 06:29 AM

Hello !

I've got some questions about Super baltars: Which Kowa lenses are the 'copys' of them and very similar ? The cine prominar -lenses or which types ?

There are some Super Baltar lenses with the metall-rings on it and some lenses without this rings, they look a little bit different.

Whats the difference ?

Does anyone have some Informations about the serial-numbers and the age of the lenses?

Does anyone have some documents or brochures (in PDF) of this lenses ?

Thanks

Michael
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#2 Michael Schroers

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 08:05 AM

Here is a picture of this lenses I've seen:

For which cameras were this lenses made is
there any difference to the super baltars
for Mitchell BNCR ?

Michael
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#3 Michael Schroers

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 08:20 AM

Super Baltar 20.jpg

Here is the picture of this lens I found long time ago (sorry, it's very bad quality)
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#4 Stephen Williams

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 02:29 PM

That lens would be from early 1960's when the MK II came out, the SB's were in the manual along with the Arg. 25-250 3.9.

I know of a mint set, one of which is really radioactive!
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#5 Michael Schroers

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 05:06 PM

That lens would be from early 1960's when the MK II came out, the SB's were in the manual along with the Arg. 25-250 3.9.

I know of a mint set, one of which is really radioactive!



Is such a lens like this one on the picture really radioactive (more than a old cooke speed panchro ser.II) ?

Is it one of the newer or the older super baltars for mitchell bncr ?
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#6 Zakaree Sandberg

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 07:14 PM

I own a set of kowas. love them.

they are the exact opposite of super baltars..

baltars are warmer, with a cool flare..

kowas are cooler, with a warm flare..

id say the kowas are in the zeiss standard speed color range.
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#7 Michael Schroers

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 03:55 AM

I own a set of kowas. love them.

they are the exact opposite of super baltars..

baltars are warmer, with a cool flare..

kowas are cooler, with a warm flare..

id say the kowas are in the zeiss standard speed color range.





Which kowas do you have, the 'cine prominar' ?

And which lenses are sharper ?

The kowas seem to be less 'dramatic' than the super baltars, aren't they ?
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#8 Zakaree Sandberg

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Posted 31 May 2011 - 08:33 PM

Which kowas do you have, the 'cine prominar' ?

And which lenses are sharper ?

The kowas seem to be less 'dramatic' than the super baltars, aren't they ?



I have a full set of CINE PROMINAR
20, 32, 40, 50, 75, 100 (on the lookout for a 25)

These lenses are less dramatic and less retro looking (in image quality) than the super baltars.

I have found the kowas to be sharper than the baltars as well

I love these lenses, but would be more hesitant to use them on commercial work... They work amazing for narrative shorts/features.
On digital sensors like the RED (which I have) I prefer older glass such as the kowa's or panchros, not the tack sharp "medical" looking modern lenses.

I got real lucky with these lenses. bought them spur of the moment when i saw they were for sale. without doing any research (ballsy move), but I fell in love with them.

Attached Images

  • photo 1.jpg
  • photo 2.jpg

Edited by Zakaree Sandberg, 31 May 2011 - 08:34 PM.

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#9 Michael Schroers

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 03:55 AM

Hello Zakaree,

that's very interessting.

What was after the time of the super baltars, when Bausch and Lomb stopped the production of this lenses (in the late 70s or when) ?

The last Mitchell cameras, which lenses did they have: Was ist canon K35 or Kowa ?

What was more expensive, Kowa, Super Baltar or Canon ?


Michael
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#10 Zakaree Sandberg

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 03:58 AM

I think it went baltars, super baltars, cooke panchro/ kow cine, then k35 was more towards the end of BNCR and into PL
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#11 Michael Schroers

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 08:15 AM

And how expensive was a kow lens compared to super baltar or canon k35 ?

Or was it the same ?
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#12 Zakaree Sandberg

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Posted 01 June 2011 - 01:07 PM

dont know original prices
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#13 Michael Schroers

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Posted 28 June 2011 - 11:22 AM

Does anybody know film scenes which were filmed with the Super Baltar 20 mm ?

How is the quality of this lens ?

Michael
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#14 dino vian

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 06:39 AM

The first and second Godfather were shot with the same set of Super Baltars. I am sure a 20 was used. The 20 was a very good lens, one of the sharpest of the Super Baltar sets (but all are a little different) Some say the 25mm was the worst Super Baltar and some say the 35 was always hard match the color to the others.
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#15 dino vian

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Posted 06 July 2011 - 06:41 AM

Kowa Cine Prominar's were used on the first Rocky.
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#16 Adrian Correia

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Posted 09 July 2011 - 09:54 PM

I own a set of super baltars although my 20mm is a Kowa....the 35mm is softer and I usually do not shoot it wide open - but look of the lenses are wonderul
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#17 Daniel Bronks

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 01:19 PM

The Kowas have a bluer anti flare coating, but the glass is very similar. The K35's are in the ballpark but a little harsher. The back elements of the Kowas and K35's are much smaller in diameter than the super baltars
and therefor they 'porthole' more, the image is darker around the edge of frame, however it is not a fault so much as a characteristic.
The 20 and 25mm super baltars can be very warm with age due to radioactive elements in the glass, but all the colour differences and those with the Kowas can be graded to match. In my opinion the Super Baltars are the most
beautiful lenses ever made, the Kowas not far off.

I have put together a mega set using a combination of the 3. Using 2 sets of Baltars, 1 in their original Band L housing, and a Ceco housed set which are much heavier. It goes like this.

15mm Kowa cine prominar
18mm Canon K35
20mm Super Baltar
25mm Super Baltar
35mm Super Baltar
40mm Kowa cine Prominar
50mm Super Baltar
55mm Super Speed Baltar T1.1
75mm Super Baltar
85mm Super Speed Baltar T1.7
100mm Super Baltar
152mm Super Baltar

I scoured the earth for these lenses and have converted them all to PL mounts.




There are a few differences but they texture is fairly similar.

The Kowas and the K35 have a smaller back
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#18 Daniel Bronks

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Posted 21 July 2011 - 01:35 PM

Each set seem to be different, I have 3 x 35mm's and 2x 20's and 2 x 25's, Some get really soft at the edge of frame, none of them i would shoot wide open unless i wanted that particular effect. They perform best in the
T4-5.6 range. This is not a problem on the Alexa and 800EI.
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#19 Michael Schroers

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Posted 25 July 2011 - 08:16 AM

And in which years were the kowas made ? I think it was later than the super baltars . . .
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#20 Michael Schroers

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 11:01 AM

Were Super Baltars or Kowa lenses used in the first 'Carrie' too ?
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