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Bolex EL 16mm Crystal Sync Problem


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#1 flavio filho

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Posted 20 June 2011 - 05:33 PM

My Bolex EL is not running at crystal-sync. THe guy will repair and convert it to Ultra will not put his hands on it to fix as is much different from any other crystal-sync things...

SO, end up with an AWESOME camera that will only work fine at 24fps...
What to do? Does any of you knows who has Bolex parts.....?

Don't want to buy an external motor, for money and usability reasons of this camera I intended too.
Please, any help will be greatly appreciated...

Thanks!

Flavio
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#2 Chris Millar

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 02:02 AM

My Bolex EL is not running at crystal-sync. THe guy will repair and convert it to Ultra will not put his hands on it to fix as is much different from any other crystal-sync things...

What doesn't go ? It runs but not at sync ? If so, how are you checking sync (just the light on the unit or you actually have a tachometer?) ? It does't run at all ?

What happens and/or doesn't happen ?


SO, end up with an AWESOME camera that will only work fine at 24fps...


Well, if it aint sync then it aint 24fps - the speed will depend on the battery ... You say 'only' so what about the other non-sync speeds ?

Does any of you knows who has Bolex parts.....?


hmmmm, I dont want to ask a dumb question but I have a hunch your problem might be an easier 'fix' than you're expecting - are you actually running a sync unit ? If not, you need one - if so we need to determine if the fault is with that or with the camera ... The cost difference between fixing/replacing each of these is quite a lot.


Don't want to buy an external motor, for money and usability reasons of this camera I intended too.


The EL does have a 1:1 shaft, but in my experience its not suitable for running the camera by this - I've never figured out what its for, but have on occasion used it for a sync output - not mechanical input as you suggest.



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#3 flavio filho

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 05:53 AM

Hi Chris.

Thanks loads for your answer.
I'll try to get more info. But below is what he said:

"the camera is not running crystal sync, which means that something's going on with the electronics. It's not something I would ever attempt to fix since the circuitry is so different from standard crystal circuitry in most other cameras, but it will matter if you intend to shoot crystal sync/lip sync. If you don't need the camera for that use, it will run close enough to 24fps like a mechanical Bolex, and I'll go ahead and check out the mags and torque motor when I have a chance."
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#4 Chris Millar

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 07:43 AM

oh boy

You know what - without knowing what he's done or if he's qualified to do it then we're kinda stuck here...

Does he have a crystal sync unit ?? Something he or I would have thought you would have supplied to generate the sync ? The Bolex ones look like little hammerrite boxes with a cable coming out of them, or maybe a Tobin one, plastic with switches and an LED. But I guess when he says "since the circuitry is so different from standard crystal circuitry in most other cameras" that maybe he does know what he's talking about...


hmmm Posted Image


There are two 'levels' of circuitry in the EL - one much much harder to get to - spare parts in some ways equates to a complete new camera
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#5 Jean-Louis Seguin

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 07:55 AM

Hey Flavio,

The camera by itself is designed to run at electronically controlled speeds but not crystal.

To obtain a crystal controlled speed, you need an external crystal controller device.

When you set the speed selector to CRYS without using a controller, the camera will simply run at a speed close to 24 or 25fps.

When you set the speed selector to CRYS with the controller, the camera will run at the speed determined by the controller, either 24 or 25 fps depending on the model.

Without the controller, you simply can not get crystal controlled speeds.

Cheers,
Jean-Louis
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#6 flavio filho

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 08:09 AM

Hey Flavio,

The camera by itself is designed to run at electronically controlled speeds but not crystal.

To obtain a crystal controlled speed, you need an external crystal controller device.

When you set the speed selector to CRYS without using a controller, the camera will simply run at a speed close to 24 or 25fps.

When you set the speed selector to CRYS with the controller, the camera will run at the speed determined by the controller, either 24 or 25 fps depending on the model.

Without the controller, you simply can not get crystal controlled speeds.

Cheers,
Jean-Louis




Hi guys.
Thanks loads.

I prefer to believe that simply he has NO crystal controller. If he says it runs well at 24fps, means that the camera works at least...

But in case he knows what he's doing (he is an expert in conversions in such cameras) and the camera DOES NOT CRYSTAL SYNC, that means the INTERNAL CRYSTAL UNIT is damaged. Being that for any reason, dso here I expect to get some ideas of what's going on... It could mean the camera will work fine on all velocities, but NO crystal-sync at all...

Does make sense what I wrote?
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#7 Jean-Louis Seguin

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 12:08 PM

From your comments, I have the impression that you do have the camera in front of you.
Perhaps you are only contemplating buying this camera from this "conversion expert".

Here is one version of the crystal control for the H16EL:

[attachment=7070:el 480.jpg]

Cheers,
Jean-Louis

Edited by Jean-Louis Seguin, 21 June 2011 - 12:08 PM.

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#8 Chris Millar

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Posted 21 June 2011 - 03:53 PM

Hi guys.
Thanks loads.

I prefer to believe that simply he has NO crystal controller. If he says it runs well at 24fps, means that the camera works at least...

But in case he knows what he's doing (he is an expert in conversions in such cameras) and the camera DOES NOT CRYSTAL SYNC, that means the INTERNAL CRYSTAL UNIT is damaged. Being that for any reason, dso here I expect to get some ideas of what's going on... It could mean the camera will work fine on all velocities, but NO crystal-sync at all...

Does make sense what I wrote?


We're still stuck ...

You need to ask him if he used a known to work crystal unit on your EL - i.e. he needs to prove the fault is with your camera and not his crystal sync unit.

If he replies that he never used one and just set your camera to 'crys' - then I'd certainly question getting a conversion done by him and your camera is as good as any other randomly chosen EL and just needs a unit plugged in to a sync unit (ebay).

If you try your camera on 24 and 25 then switch to cyrs without an attached unit the frequency of motor sound should be about the same, but it'll have a sort of 'lagging and catch up' "wah-wah-wah" quality to it also. Try it and if it doesn't go then thats a clue also, but best you just ask your tech - or send him the link for this discussion here.
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#9 flavio filho

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 05:09 PM

From your comments, I have the impression that you do have the camera in front of you.
Perhaps you are only contemplating buying this camera from this "conversion expert".

Here is one version of the crystal control for the H16EL:

[attachment=7070:el 480.jpg]

Cheers,
Jean-Louis



HI Jean.

No, the camera is mine but I never saw it.

Bought from a guy in USA. Another guy that I see now it's not a "Bolex Expert" has the camera. But I will send someone else to convert it.
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