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CAD Drawings of Bolex H16 Rex 4 and up.


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#1 Robert Ditto

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 05:08 AM

Hello Everyone!

I was wondering if there is anyone out there who has created or know someone who has created a set of CAD drawings or 3D model of the Bolex H16 REX 4 and later cameras? I have a couple of ideas for a motor and video tap and I need something that I can work with without having to actually cut into a camera.

Can anyone out there help me?

Sincerely, Respectfully,
Robert M. Ditto
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#2 Chris Millar

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 04:41 PM

motor mounts and shafts you have driect access too

getting to the prism isn't that hard ... - turret off then the plate - maybe there is more to it, I can't recall but it isn't too hard. Certainly no actual cutting :ph34r:
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#3 Robert Ditto

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Posted 27 July 2011 - 05:12 PM

Well, my video tap requires cutting of the reflex assembly which runs across the top of the body and adding another 50/50 beam splitter. With the motor mounts and shafts I do not have the proper tools to measure with to a precise enough degree that would help in the machining process. With the CAD files I would be able to measure to the Nth level of accuracy, even generate the proper CAD file for CNC machinging.
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#4 Chris Millar

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 12:03 AM

Well, my video tap requires cutting of the reflex assembly which runs across the top of the body and adding another 50/50 beam splitter. With the motor mounts and shafts I do not have the proper tools to measure with to a precise enough degree that would help in the machining process. With the CAD files I would be able to measure to the Nth level of accuracy, even generate the proper CAD file for CNC machinging.



But without a camera you dont know to what Nth of of accuracy the thing was made with from the drawings ... Then getting the dang thing aligned correctly to the coordinate space of the lovely carbide end mill chucking its guts at 8000 RPM ? Posted Image

Some standard vernier calipers can go a long way with stuff like this - often its all we use at work in situations where reliable CAD drawings aren't forthcoming (model to model, batch to batch variation can turn the best of plans to turds).

For a bit of background be aware that using CNC mills and lathes and every other bit of fun we can jam in the shop to modify cameras and gripping equipment was my living until two weeks ago when I went back to engineering at university... I have also had personal experience modifying my Bolex RX and EL cameras to super16 and making video taps for them (albeit not as intrusive). The EL repair/parts/spec folder I got off a Bolex technician has quite a few drawings of the EL - hand rendered, I can ask him if he has the RX range repair manuals also.
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#5 Robert Ditto

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 09:55 AM

Sorry, I was trying to disagree with you anything, and I probably should have made my self a little more clear, I am looking for CAD files that I can use with my software. And use the measurement tools in the software. I have a camera, I actually own three working models and about 4 parts bodies. I used the parts bodies to convert my J and my S to Reflex, one at 13x and 1 at 10x. And I would never set a single o.e of these beautiful camera under the bit of a machine like I think your thinking. The CNC machining would be from raw materials to make the plates and parts of the motor, not modifying the camera. You I have the CAD files for all of the electronics and motor I would be using, I was just hoping to get a hold of some CAD files of the body of the camera to design the motor mounting plate and such. As far as the video tap goes I have a VERY good dremmel for that and would take the reflex assembly apart and do the cutting safely.

As far as the drawings you mentioned from the techician, what would it cost to get a copy of everything you have. I would love to see how the EL is built. Can you see if he has the same for the pocket bolexes as well?

I really do appreciate your input even if I came off like I didn't, if I did please accept my apologies.

Sincerely, Respectfully,
Robert

P.S. do you mind sharing with me how you made your video tap? If you will send me your email in personal message I can send you pdf sketches of what I am talking about for my video tap.
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#6 Robert Ditto

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 09:57 AM

That first sentence should have been "Sorry, I *wasn't* trying to disagree with you"
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#7 Chris Millar

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 06:53 PM

I am looking for CAD files that I can use with my software. And use the measurement tools in the software. I have a camera, I actually own three working models and about 4 parts bodies. I used the parts bodies to convert my J and my S to Reflex, one at 13x and 1 at 10x. And I would never set a single o.e of these beautiful camera under the bit of a machine like I think your thinking. The CNC machining would be from raw materials to make the plates and parts of the motor, not modifying the camera. You I have the CAD files for all of the electronics and motor I would be using, I was just hoping to get a hold of some CAD files of the body of the camera to design the motor mounting plate and such. As far as the video tap goes I have a VERY good dremmel for that and would take the reflex assembly apart and do the cutting safely.

As far as the drawings you mentioned from the techician, what would it cost to get a copy of everything you have. I would love to see how the EL is built. Can you see if he has the same for the pocket bolexes as well?

P.S. do you mind sharing with me how you made your video tap? If you will send me your email in personal message I can send you pdf sketches of what I am talking about for my video tap.


incoherent but relevant replies:

For a CADCAM system you dont need a full model - just the relevant points of interest - usually fixing or datum points/planes ... Even with CAD drawings I still recommend getting the measurements directly off the camera to be attached, its a situation which makes CAD drawings (which I doubt exist, for free at least) a moot point ...

ahhh, you're the other guy that has discovered the 'J' models ! good thinking ;)

A very good dremel is as good as the person operating it - and if you mean a homebuilt CNC dremel router? be careful, those things flex around like soggy paper ...

Drawings are in another country - you're not the first who has asked for them ! I'll try to find the Bolex tech again though, I think he's at Panavision now

Video tap was made a looong time ago, before I had an 1/8th of the half a clue I have nowadays - its was just a mini-DV video camera puched up to the finder... but thing is, turns out it worked well optically and you could record to tape right there and then - untethered if need be ;) crap for focus of course

I never required it since - go figure :rolleyes:

no offence taken - I'm just a bit terse with lots going on at the moment, but love people getting into camera building especially via film -
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#8 Robert Ditto

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 07:33 PM

Long live film! I love film. And I love Bolex cameras. I am just trying to figure out a way to create a product that will be able to bring any reflex Bolex into the modern age an compete with all the hard and fast Arriflex users who don't think Bolex is up to snuff, even comparing to the older models. My brother and I have worked out most of the details as fas as parts and accessories go we want to design a video tap using off the shelf parts for the most part that will allow the user to use the original viewfinder at the same time if the user wishes. It will record at 720p to use like dailies and comes with an LCD panel that gives you a menu that will allow you to chose safeframes for all the popular aspect ratios.

The precision motor is software controlled for variable frame rates for forward and reverse directions will support the MM and the WM take up motors and after a little more design a custom lense mounts that will use the Canon EOS lenses with all of their auto funtions. My brother helps write the chip software architecture at HP so he knows how to write all the code for the controls and is a Canon EOS developer.

We were just afraid that manual measurements may not be correct enough to finish the design of the mounting screws to the side of the body and placement of the shaft to precisely connect to the 8:1 shaft on the camera.

And if we can complete the first design and use that to create a product, we want to offer it cheaply for all the other guys out there who want to shoot film but don't have 30,000 to spend on a camera body never mind the accessories.

We both have great jobs that pays our bills, and we want to offer all the other little guys a truly affordable modular package that will allow the user to build a camera all the way up to professional levels if they want for not much over cost. And alot of these parts are rediculously cheap believe it of not, you just need some one who knows how to program, or draft, which together we have. We have just been afraid of the manual measurements because we don't want to get it wrong is all.

But I have shot digital and film, and I would rather shoot film everyday and twice on Sunday if the choice were left up to me.

Sincerely, Respectfully,
Robert

Oh and my dremel is a drill press set-up with a laser pointer and a very precise movement measurement system, almost like a manual CNC machine but that's a kind of a contradiction in terms isn't it, lol.
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#9 Chris Millar

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Posted 28 July 2011 - 10:17 PM

Interesting stuff ...

Couple of biggies when it comes to Bolex camera comparisons with more expensive 16mm cameras:

Image steadiness/weave - bolex only has friction to work with, not so good at higher fps
Noise - they are LOUD
Hand-holdability - sure, sometimes the bolex format is exactly what you need, but especially with the 400mag its like trying to hold a cat upside down and give it medicine Posted Image

You're going to use the 8:1 huh ? Cool ... The motors I've used that mate to those shafts all have a quite loose mechanical connection anyway, it helped rather then hindered ... I still think if you're serious about this some vernier calipers, dividers and so on will be a worthy investment - even just a plain old steel rule would be fine, at least for the motor.

Are you using a stepper or servo ? Steppers due to their inherent ahem, steppiness can resonate with the Bolex body and create a hell of a racket noise-wise even with microstepping - your milage may vary Posted Image

Dremel drill press - uh oh! What sort of cutter are you going to use ? Like a dremel style carbide burr ? Does it use proper linear bearings or some kind of sliding dovetail way ? I'm building my own CNC mill at the moment, I have a very personal interest in machine rigidity, the amount of damn money I'm sinking into this thing to have it out of alignment or prone to chatter is a real worry, would love to pour my own cast iron one one day Posted Image
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