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Nizo 801 + Ektachrome 100D STABILITY ISSUES


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#1 Alec Eagon

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 05:36 PM

Hey Everyone,

Just shot some S8 Ektachrome 100D on my "mint" (or so I thought) Nizo 801 and about half of the results turned out like this: (Password: "unstable")

Any ideas about what caused that, film, camera, gate, etc... (it seemed to occur both at high speed and at 24fps)???

Thanks a lot!
-Alec
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#2 John Richardson

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 06:18 PM

Hi Alec,

It could be two things I think.

1. A dodgy cart, unlikely if its from Kodak.
2. The film claw/pick up is not latching to the film sprokets properly. This means your camera needs a bit of a service/looking at and it should solve it.

Best of luck
J
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#3 Jean-Louis Seguin

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 09:02 PM

Hey Alec,

Have you tried projecting the image with a super8 projector?

I have a funny feeling the jumpiness is related to the digital transfer.

If it looks the same projected, then John's comments cover the possible causes.

Cheers,
Jean-Louis
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#4 Alec Eagon

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 11:43 PM

Hey Alec,

Have you tried projecting the image with a super8 projector?

I have a funny feeling the jumpiness is related to the digital transfer.

If it looks the same projected, then John's comments cover the possible causes.

Cheers,
Jean-Louis



Interesting. I am pretty confident that this is not the case, but it will be worth a try to rule it out on when I get the film reels back this weekend....
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#5 Alec Eagon

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 11:51 PM

Hi Alec,

It could be two things I think.

1. A dodgy cart, unlikely if its from Kodak.
2. The film claw/pick up is not latching to the film sprokets properly. This means your camera needs a bit of a service/looking at and it should solve it.

Best of luck
J



Hmmm....ya I will look into getting it serviced after I rule out a Telecine error.

thanks J
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#6 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 11:54 PM

I've been using a Nizo 481 macro for over 5 years now with a wide variety of stocks over the years. I have not had too many stability issues with the 100D, but always notice that the carts seem to run a little harder than any other stocks I have used. The motor just seems to churn a little louder. It may be due to a thicker emulsion? I usually give the cart a few good bangs on my palm before i load them, just to loosen it up a little. They do seem to run a little smoother on the motor.
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#7 Alec Eagon

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Posted 11 August 2011 - 11:58 PM

I've been using a Nizo 481 macro for over 5 years now with a wide variety of stocks over the years. I have not had too many stability issues with the 100D, but always notice that the carts seem to run a little harder than any other stocks I have used. The motor just seems to churn a little louder. It may be due to a thicker emulsion? I usually give the cart a few good bangs on my palm before i load them, just to loosen it up a little. They do seem to run a little smoother on the motor.


Good to know about the thicker emulsion. I'll definitely remember to bang the carts a bit.

having said that, have you ever encountered anything as drastic as my issue though?
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#8 Martin Baumgarten

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 01:53 PM

I tend to agree with Jean-Louis that it's a telecine related problem. The jumpiness is too even and steady throughout your segment to believe it came from the original incamera exposure. However, it still could be the camera...but I have never seen unsteadiness like this from a NIZO; it tends to jump if in the camera, but not so perfectly from frame to frame.

Regarding the other issue, of the EK100D film being thicker and running rougher etc. This has also been an issue many times with the previous EK64T as well. A similar situation can occur with FOMAPAN R-100, which normally is not available in Super 8mm cartridges but can be custom loaded that way privately. As with any Super 8mm film cartridge film sticking or jumpiness incamera problem, a nice wipe of the film gate with a clean cotton flannel cloth moistened with pure Silicone will solve that. Should a cartridge give further problems, pull the film out of the cartridge gate so you can wipe the pressure plate with Silicone as well. That has cured 99% of any problem I've ever had with cartridges being problematic that way.

Super 8mm film cartridges will jam for a small variety of reasons:
[1]. High humidity present in environment upon opening of foil seal pack, causing film emulsion to swell like a sponge...that part that's exposed in the cartridge gate. This will usually cause a film to jam right at the beginning. SOLUTION: pull the film downward and rotate the takeup core clockwise to take up the slack. If very humid, make sure to wipe film gate with Silicone....if a deep film chamber such as a rear loading camera (which the NIZO is), you can just GENEROUSLY wipe the exposed film surface with Silicone and it will wipe the camera gate when you reinsert it.

[2]. Film jamming from using the Film Rewind, Double Exposure, or Lap Dissolve function on a camera. What happens is the film will jam, either because the rewind function was begung too early in the cartridge (wait until at least 5 feet of film has been run) or too late in the cartridge (don't inititate a film rewind within the last 5 to 10 feet of a cartridge's remaining film length). SOLUTION: Take up any film slack by rotating the film takeup core clockwise, if no slack....then depress the Pressure Plate in the cartridge by using a small screwdriver or tweezers to either side of the film...and while holding it in, pull the film downward. Do this for a few inches of film, sometimes it has to be done for as much as a foot of film....then keep taking up the slack by rotating the film takeup core clockwise. NOTE: Should the film NOT pull down due to a severe jam....do NOT force it then. The film could just break. Notify the lab of a film jam in this situation when sending it in for processing.

[3]. Film jam caused a film pull-down to takup core rotation problem.....or by using high running speeds in a given camera ( Slow Motion ), in which the film takeup core isn't rotating fast enough to keep up with the film fed to it from the cartridge gate, so it overslacks into the takeup chamber side of the cartridge. This either manifests itself via a full jam, or if shot at normal running speeds of 18fps or 24fps, can just cause the film to jitter while it's running. SOLUTION: remove cartridge from the camera and wind up the excessive slack in the cartridge by rotating the film takeup core clockwise until the film is taunt. Do NOT force the film too tightly. If the problem persists on a given camera, then use the film in another camera instead and/or avoid using the Slow Motion feature on that given camera causing the problem (IF the problem only happens in the Slow Motion mode setting).

[4]. Film manufacturing problem regarding sprocket holes (perforations) or a faulty cartridge where film is not unspooling from the supply side smoothly due to a warped or jammed Slip Disc (thin plastic disc the film sits on and rotates as it feeds) or a jammed or popped-off or otherwise damaged film feed roller which is just above the film gate where the film turns over on so it's emulsion side out as it runs thru the film gate. Any cartridge related problem requires opening the cartridge to assess the problem, resetting the film in the fixed cartridge or another one, and then sealing up the cartridge.

ADDENUM: There's another way to fix jammed Super 8m Cartridges, but it is involved and requires opening up the cartridge and resetting the film correctly so it will run. If the jam occurred early enough before main filming, it's best to just rewind the entire film load and reload it into a good working cartridge. I know what you're thinking, where does one get this done. PPS does this type of service here....but if you do your own film processing, you can learn how to work with the cartridges to use them. It does require making up a small jig to wind the film up for the Supply Side of the Super 8mm Cartridge so that it will rotate on the stationary hub smoothly.
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#9 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 05:08 PM

By the way, if it does turn out to've been shot like that, it's probably fixable.

P
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#10 Jean-Louis Seguin

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 06:01 PM

Thanks Martin for that detailed How-to about cartridge jams. Very informative.

I have one question about the silicone you suggest be used as a gate lubricant.

What exactly is it and where can you obtain it?

Thanks.

Cheers,
Jean-Louis
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#11 Alec Eagon

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Posted 12 August 2011 - 08:45 PM

By the way, if it does turn out to've been shot like that, it's probably fixable.

P



Yes to it being fixable (even right now before I've had the option to test the film myself).

I did a test with Lock & Load X Frames plugin for FCP and it fixed it in a jiff (much better than expected too). It's a handy little plugin, worth whatever I paid for it.

...Actually, now that I am thinking about it, the relative ease with which Lock&Load fixed it is making me really wonder about the scan...

Edited by Alec Eagon, 12 August 2011 - 08:49 PM.

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#12 Alec Eagon

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Posted 13 August 2011 - 06:20 PM

Hey everyone,

UPDATE: So I just tested it on a well kept S8mm projector and the bouncing is native on the film...

Couple of questions:

- Does this discovery point toward a "film claw/pick up" issue?

- Anyone know a good place to have a Nizo 801 Macro serviced or looked at (preferably west coast USA)?

Thanks!
-alec
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#13 andy oliver

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 09:44 AM

Hi, I have experianced some transport issues with kodaks 100d, the film transports fine though sound cameras, canon 814xls, beaulieu 7008, yet the same cartridge jams up in two sepearte 514xl cameras. I have also noticed some strange noises and irratic running from the leicina special too. I wonder if kodak lub 100d like they did with later batches of 64t....
Anyone else having transportation issues with 100d?
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#14 AndyW

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 06:38 AM

Hi, I have experianced some transport issues with kodaks 100d, the film transports fine though sound cameras, canon 814xls, beaulieu 7008, yet the same cartridge jams up in two sepearte 514xl cameras. I have also noticed some strange noises and irratic running from the leicina special too. I wonder if kodak lub 100d like they did with later batches of 64t....
Anyone else having transportation issues with 100d?


Hello Eneryone,

I am new to super 8 and have experienced problems with running of the 100d.
I purchased a 514xl in excellent condition from an enthusiast whom had cared for the camera. I used my first roll of 100d, and made sure that I used fresh Duracell Batteries.I had tested the two film speeds prior to loading (9,18) The film seemed to run fine for shots up to 4 seconds. Any longer than this the speed would decrease and film would stop! As if the batteries were dead. To rule out faulty batteries I changed them for another fresh pair,but still the same issue. I removed the cart and tried turning the wheel clockwise. There wasnt any take up but I noticed just how stiff the wheel was to turn. I had to use quite alot of strenth to turn the wheel and the film did run albeit 'jerky' across the pressure plate. Again I would imagine it is immpossible to determine wether the Cart is faulty of the camera has issues due to age etc, or a combination of the two. I have read that here in the UK several people have experienced problems with film seemingly too tight on spool. I have sent my film off for processing and await the results. I am concerned that it may be overexposed and 'jerky'. I thought I would share my experience with you. I deliberately purchased the 514 xl as I had read it is a very reliable model and paid extra for a 'tested with film' camera. I am now considering purchasing a Nizo 801 as I like the features. It may be an expensive test however as I may still experience problems with film stock in that camera?
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