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affordable sound camera?


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#1 Cole Paquette

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 01:14 AM

Hello, I was looking for some reccomendations for a 16mm camera that records in optical sound. Mostly for basic projection work as well as extremely low budget projects.
I know of the auricon by mention of the name only.
So, what would be a good camera to use, and what would be a reasonable price for one?
Thanks in advance.
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#2 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 02:19 AM

An old Auricon might be a possibility, assuming you could get one that records optical sound. TV news organisations used magnetic sound, so most people shooting single system sound would use a camera that could record on the mag stripe or commag as they referred to it in the UK, so any optical sound cameras would be older.

You might get a camera on e-bay, but I suspect it would be more a collector's camera than one to actaully shoot with.

Googling I came across this Auricon users group, who might help.

http://movies.groups.../Auricon_Sound/
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#3 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 02:53 PM

An old Auricon might be a possibility, assuming you could get one that records optical sound. TV news organisations used magnetic sound, so most people shooting single system sound would use a camera that could record on the mag stripe or commag as they referred to it in the UK, so any optical sound cameras would be older.


I am playing with an old auricon now. The optical sound versions are still around, and the auricon sound group does have lots of information on them. TV news switched to magnetic sound as they could do tricks like re-recording the track in the editing suite, and also being able to use the camera without having to try and get optimum exposure for the sound track.

Auricon made some cameras that can record both, and the later ones dropped the optical sound capability. Unfortunately, Kodak no longer has the capability to make mag-stripe stock, so a "Filmagntic" only Auricon is a silent camera these days.

One problem you will quickly run into with single system is the sound is recorded many frames ahead of the picture on the film, so it would be difficult to edit the film without having "Jumps" in the sound. This was not a problem for the TV guys as the reporter would give their report at the studio while the film was playing.

Some folks will use a Auricon, or it's magnetic sound descendent the CP16 equipped with a synchronous motor as a double system camera.
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#4 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 04:09 PM

One trick used by news film editors was to wipe mag sound on the film using a magnetic to avoid the wrong sound overlapping a shot.

If you're doing any shooting, double system sound is the way to go, even if you could record using the camera's single system because of the mentioned issue of the recording head being ahead of the picture.
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#5 Cole Paquette

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Posted 18 August 2011 - 10:44 PM

okay, so editing would be an...interesting experience.
but it must be possible, as I have an old information reel for a sound projector that has multiple different shots with audio.
more accurately, it has multiple stitched together shots with static, until i can figure out exactly how to clean the optical sound head on the projector. and replace the cables that fell apart. they seem to be a later mod to the projector.

how much is the sound galvanometer worth? and I assume an amp is needed as well? someone has a cinevoice missing the galvanometer, no lenses or cables, but the rest is there. $149 is the current ask price, free shipping.
I assume by the 0 bids that it would be a money sink?
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#6 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 02:54 PM

okay, so editing would be an...interesting experience.
but it must be possible, as I have an old information reel for a sound projector that has multiple different shots with audio.


Typically, the sound and picture would be eddited separatly, and then the final sound track would be printed in the final release prints.

how much is the sound galvanometer worth? and I assume an amp is needed as well? someone has a cinevoice missing the galvanometer, no lenses or cables,


I belive that placing teh Galvanometer was one of the jobs that required a jig in the factory. Since the factory was torn down, if that jig was not saved, attempting to install a galvonometer might be an enginering project. One fellow in the Auricon group did manage to get the jig for putting base rings on the light bulbs for the Auricons.

to give you an idea, this photo - http://flic.kr/p/adKkEW - was taken with a macro seting on a digital camera, and shows how close the Business end of the galvo is to the main sprocket in a Cinevoice. The ovarall view is here: http://flic.kr/p/adKscN
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#7 Cole Paquette

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 04:29 PM

looks to be only a couple millimeters of space.
mount too close, scratch the film. mount too far away, the light will bleed into the images and will record a track that is too big, rendering any audio unusable.

a nice tricky repair, with a lot to go wrong. thanks for the pictures-I'll avoid that specific camera like the plague then.
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#8 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 19 August 2011 - 07:43 PM

looks to be only a couple millimeters of space.
mount too close, scratch the film. mount too far away, the light will bleed into the images and will record a track that is too big, rendering any audio unusable.



It is much trickier than that! At even 5Khz, one cycle of sound is recorded on about one thousands of an inch of 16mm film. The galvo has to project as sharp an image of the recording slit as it can to record that fine a detail. too close or too far and you are out of focus. lack of focus starts at distorted sound and ends at unreadable sound.

From the factory, they were set right on, if the galvo has been tampered , it would be a long road to get it in the right place.

Beside the auricon there are very few cameras that attempted single system optical sound. There is a very rare clockwork unit built by RCA.
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