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Industrie vet arressted for insustrial espioange. RED sues ARRI.


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#1 jan von krogh

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 09:06 PM

that is worth a post.
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#2 George Ebersole

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 10:22 PM

Do you have a link, or a source?
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#3 Keith Walters

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 01:04 AM

Do you have a link, or a source?

It's all over Reduser. (The site is off the air at the moment though, otherwise I'd give you a couple of links).

I think a lot of people here know about it, but since all the stories are long on hot air speculation and very short on actual hard details, nobody has bothered to comment on this forum.

Apparently while Michael Bravin worked for Arri, he was still eavesdropping on the email accounts of Band Pro where he used to work.

There appears to have been no actual hacking involved, he was simply using passwords that he already knew and nobody had bothered to change.

Some of the news sources have reported he has received a 2 month jail sentence in exchange for a confession, but it is not yet clear whether he will actually serve any time.

Jannard is reportedly going to sue Arri, but some informal legal opinion I've had anyway suggests such an action would be unlikely to succeed. However, we really don't have all the facts at this point so it's hard to say.
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#4 Stephen Williams

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 02:04 AM

Some of the news sources have reported he has received a 2 month jail sentence in exchange for a confession, but it is not yet clear whether he will actually serve any time.


Here is the plea agreement.

http://www-deadline-...10922235332.pdf
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#5 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 02:26 AM

It's all over Reduser. (The site is off the air at the moment though, otherwise I'd give you a couple of links).


I found those links in my PC history:

http://www.engadget....ival-ceos-e-mai

http://www.ocbj.com/...ts-red-digital/

It seems to be Michael Bravin accessing his old employer's emails. He's involved with marketing, rather than design.

Of course people love their conspiracies, but there doesn't seem to be a systemic "News of the World" style hacking going on in this particular case (you'd employ an outside contractor to do that). Just rather sad he felt the need to do so.
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#6 Peter Moretti

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 02:28 AM

The plea agreement says: "The total loss to Band Pro from defendant's unauthorized accesses totaled at least $5,011." and "The parties agree that the applicable amount of restitution in this case is $20,000."

But from Reduser, it seems that this incident is much more severe and far reaching.
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#7 George Ebersole

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 03:18 AM

It's all over Reduser. (The site is off the air at the moment though, otherwise I'd give you a couple of links).

I think a lot of people here know about it, but since all the stories are long on hot air speculation and very short on actual hard details, nobody has bothered to comment on this forum.

Apparently while Michael Bravin worked for Arri, he was still eavesdropping on the email accounts of Band Pro where he used to work.

There appears to have been no actual hacking involved, he was simply using passwords that he already knew and nobody had bothered to change.

Some of the news sources have reported he has received a 2 month jail sentence in exchange for a confession, but it is not yet clear whether he will actually serve any time.

Jannard is reportedly going to sue Arri, but some informal legal opinion I've had anyway suggests such an action would be unlikely to succeed. However, we really don't have all the facts at this point so it's hard to say.

Interesting.
*EDIT*
I don't know the details, so I should just keep my big mouth shut. I hope everything works out.
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#8 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 04:39 AM

I heard about this some time ago but as has been said, there doesn't really seem to be much to talk about. Like many people here I've met Michael Bravin on several occasions and I'm absolutely astonished by the situation that appears to have arisen.

Further interpretation of this could only be meaningful if we knew about the sort of information involved in the case, and what the intent was. Personally I'm surprised that email sent by a camera manufacturer to a potential purchaser would have more than incidental value to anyone else - I doubt they were discussing low-level implementation details - but I shall reserve further judgement until I know what I'm talking about.
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#9 Marcus Joseph

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 06:10 AM

How can damage be proven by reading emails? How do they know how much he read and how much the information is potentially worth?

And if the situation requires a lawsuit, why does the ARRI company have to be involved, why is it not involving the individual? This doesn't make all that much sense to me.
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#10 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 06:23 AM

I guess all this is to be proven in the courts and the lawyers will do rather well along the way.
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#11 Keith Walters

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 07:52 AM

Here is the plea agreement.

http://www-deadline-...10922235332.pdf

Essentially he has pleaded guilty to a Federal Internet-related offense, and the agreement states that he will not apply to have his sentence reduced below 2 months, and the Feds will not try to impose a sentence of more than two months.
So the Attorney-General is free to impose any sentence it likes, up to 2 months, which also includes zero.
Given that he simply used passwords that he already had access to, rather than actively using password cracking techniques, the court may not regard his crime as all that serious.So he may actually not have to serve any time at all.
It sounds like they were required to prosecute on the basis of a complaint by Band Pro, rather than actively seeking him out like he was an on-line pedophile.

How do they work out that he has cost Band Pro $5,001? Or is that what it cost them to find out who had done it? It all sounds pretty dumb of him, given that there are any number of ways he could have avoided detection.

I wonder if the same laws apply to hacks made to email accounts in a foreign country...
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#12 Keith Walters

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 10:45 PM

In the end Michael didn't have to serve any time, just probation.

Now RED are going to sue ARRI. Well, they've posted a demand for a jury trial; that doesn't mean they're actually going to get one.

COMPLAINT FOR UNFAIR
COMPETITION BASED ON EMAIL
HACKING, INVASION OF
PRIVACY, C0NVERSI0N,
MISAPPROPRIATION OF TRADE
SECRETS, FALSE ADVERTISING,
UNFAIR COMPETITION UNDER
THE LANHAM ACT, UNLAWFUL
TRADE PRACTICES UNDER CAL.
BUSINESS & PROFESSIONS C0DE
§I17200 INTENTIONAL AND
NEGLIGENT INTERFERENCE WITH
PROSPECTIVE ECONOMIC
ADVANTAGE, NEGLIGENCE
TRESPASS TO CHATTELS, AND
UNJUST ENRICHMENT


I love the legal phrasing:
"RED is informed, and believes, and thereupon alleges that on or about December 19, 2011, Bravin was sentenced."
Yeah, you can download the court document; I don't know why they need to "allege" anything. :rolleyes:

Paragraphs 7 & 8 read like a press release:

7. RED is the inventor, developer, manufacturer and seller of ultra-high
definition, digital still and motion cinema cameras. In 2008, RED released an
industry sensation, the RED ONE 4K digital cinema camera. In 2009, RED
announced a new camera called the RED EPIC, which began selling around the
end of 2010. These digital cinema cameras have been used to shoot many
blockbuster movies, since their introduction.
8. These advances in digital cinema acquisition and post-production by
RED led to a revolution in filmmaking in Hollywood and elsewhere. Since their
introduction, RED’s cameras have been used in several blockbuster movies,
setting the new trend for filming. In the wake of RED’s advancements, others
were looking to begin development and use of digital cinema cameras.


The implication that others are somehow playing "catch-up" is somewhat outrageous, since Arri's D-20 was introduced in 2005, the PV Genesis in 2004, and the Dalsa Origin in 2003!

The thing goes on for several pages, repeating itself several times (as far as I can see anyway).

It's intriguing how "RED is informed, and believes, and thereupon alleges" all sorts of things that nobody would have any issue with, but they openly make assertions (as above) that people would have a great deal of issue with.
The legal profession lives in its own little universe....

Oh well, it'll sure be interesting to see how this all pans out :)
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#13 Paul Bartok

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 03:56 AM

Great more RED problem's seriously, I like how on Alexa's site it says we don't play the "k" game referring to resolution, RED is simply the first people to make a "pro camera" for cheap that's all.

I like how they've just thrown in as many Legal words they can think of, no doubt this was concocted by the REDUSERS
Hurry up F65 ;)
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#14 Emanuel A Guedes

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 03:25 PM

The legal profession lives in its own little universe....


I bet it is quite the opposite. A world without lawyers would be a stupid world. Almost as much stupid as a lot of stuff we're used to read online at times over some pages.

Emanuel
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#15 Keith Walters

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 03:50 PM

I bet it is quite the opposite. A world without lawyers would be a stupid world. Almost as much stupid as a lot of stuff we're used to read online at times over some pages.

Emanuel

Didn't you say you were a lawyer, or am I thinking of somebody who just sounds like you...
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#16 Emanuel A Guedes

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 04:42 PM

Didn't you say you were a lawyer, or am I thinking of somebody who just sounds like you...

A lawyer can be many things. Counselor, consultant, fundraiser, instructor, producer/scriptwriter/director, that is, author, artist. An organizer for sure. Someone who needs other people to co-work with. Committed people -- mentoring them if/when necessary, that make them be part of the family. When we love and care our family, we do whatever it is necessary to see and know our family united and productive.
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#17 Vincent Sweeney

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 05:19 PM

Interesting how all the "I loath/hate Arri, Arri sucks" posts from Jim suddenly have been erased.

Maybe if he had offered to fix my sunglasses and answer warranty/parts questions, he would find more peace in life. ;)
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#18 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 05:52 PM

I noticed that too Vincent. In fact, I was browsing through that thread... and then.. poof; just gone as I was reading. What's really interesting is if a thread such as that would've been admissible in court; and what it's deletion would mean for this case ect. Oh well. Back to real life.
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#19 Emanuel A Guedes

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 06:08 PM

Well observed, Adrian. Some people are used to move quite well into web waters LOL :-)

As I could write last night on reduser but we won't be able to read it anyway once the thread is gone, «this is Jim speaking with his friends around a table in 'cafe ala Jarred' ;) I like my buddies :-) I am one of them since 2005. Dozens of thousands, as of today. RED customer since April 25th, 2006»

The same for another post of mine in the same thread: «And I bet this thread will vanish in the air before other will come up... :D Be careful with the google cache, though ;-)»

At reduser, it can be seen as someone abused to speak out/up against an injustice.

Here, the norm of the trend is to look like... straight the opposite?

Funny.

Opinions. How is that web saying in english language? («Opinions are like...»)
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#20 Emanuel A Guedes

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 06:12 PM

I don't know why they need to "allege" anything. :rolleyes:


Yet, it is juridical terminology as much important to the enlightenment of the truth as certain humble entries posted online. For some reason, people apply to the Courts granted certain circumstances or losses. The reality is simply not made of the misconceived idea(s) some stranger(s) in the other side of the world can have about whoever, whatever* in his/their mind... 100% built online BTW. Sometimes, it is the only way to get justice, when the facts come out.

In Italy, they're used to say maths is not opinion. Facts either.


* a certain agenda serves?

Edited by Emanuel A, 03 January 2012 - 06:15 PM.

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