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Vision 200t with Canon 814 XL electronic?


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#1 Niall Conroy

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 11:43 AM

Hey all,

quick question - I just bought a Canon 814 XL electronic and i want to shoot a test roll. i want to test a Vision 200T with it

my understanding is that the camera will read this as 160 or 100 ISO.

however, i don't fully understand what the Vision 200T does to the camera - does it activate the 85 filter or DE-activate the in-built 85 filter?

I can't fully trust the camera's auto-exposure (seller says it may not work correctly) so i'm going to try manual meter it.

so I guess my question is: what ISO/ASA will I use to interpret the exposure? I plan to use a DSLR as a light meter (can't get my hand on a proper dedicated light meter)

so if I set 1/40 shutter speed, 160 ISO, and then find a good exposure with my DSLR - i should theoretically be able to re-use these settings on the canon 814?


secondly - what is the opinion of people with using the internal 85 filter? I read in another thread (http://www.cinematog...showtopic=46783) that some people chose to shoot without the 85 filter, in daylight, with this tungsten film - is this not insane? I've watched some videos where they didn't use the 85 filter, and it looked fine, but it still sounds crazy...
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#2 Jason Burlingame

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 05:32 PM

Quick reply

To Cancel the Filter

#1) Screw in the filter cancellation adapter. it is directly on top of the

body of the camera. (it looks like a tripod adapter on top; but is not. Never

use it for a tripod adapter)

Note: If you don't have the cancellation filter adapter than use a screw at

the hardware store.

I strongly suggest that you buy a manual, for this camera it will tell

everything that you need to know. They can be found online.

This camera does have a built in light meter. Just press on the trigger

slightly and it will tell you whether or not it is exposed or underexposed

As far as using a 35mm camera as a light meter.
It can be done, however if you normally set your 35mm camera's ISO rating to

200 ISO and properly meter, you will never get an accurate reading for your

super 8mm camera. The reason why is simple. Your super 8mm camera uses a

prism that allows you to view the lens while simultaneously capturing the

scene on film. The prism will always block some incoming light by a 1/3 of a

stop sometimes even more, depending on the thickness of the coating on the

prism. A 35mm never blocks any light to the film, because the mirror flips

out of the way when exposing the film. So you will always get a underexposed

film. However it is correctable.

To compensate for your super 8mm camera and using a 35mm camera as light

meter, you have to do some test shots (bracketing) until you get the properly

exposed film.

I also recommend to test your automatic exposure and the built in light meter

in the camera as well.


Remember regardless what light meter you use 35mm or a "real light meter,"

you will still have to compensate for the prism in your camera. So always do

tests before actually go out in the field to do real work. Other wise you are

wasting time and money.


P.S. How much did you pay for the camera, and are you using this camera for

fun or for real.
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#3 Jason Burlingame

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 05:44 PM

Note you can use 35mm camera or a DSLR. The process to find the same exposure relatively the same.
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#4 Jason Burlingame

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 05:53 PM

Your shutter angle is 220 degrees so your shutter speed is actually 1/30 not 1/40.
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#5 Niall Conroy

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 07:59 PM

first of all, many thanks for getting back to me with all this

Quick replyP.S. How much did you pay for the camera, and are you using this camera for

fun or for real.


Crazily enough - i got the camera for .99p - the seller was selling it for parts/spares as he said the light meter stopped working and the footage counter didn't work. However, the light meter seems to be working for me so far (havn't tried to put a cart in yet and test)

and i will be using the camera for real - i.e. short films etc. (i already have a elmo 1012s-xl)


Your shutter angle is 220 degrees so your shutter speed is actually 1/30 not 1/40.


true, but the manual (which i have) advises to shoot at the 150degree shutter when in daylight, which is what i was referring to, and is 1/40


and yes, the bracketing does sadly seem to be only option here, which will end up costing quite a pretty penny. but i guess its for the best.

do you own this camera also? have you shot with 200t?
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#6 Miguel Loredo

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 06:43 AM

Will expose perfectly. Also negative films have a great latitude and there's no need to expose accurately. Just shot and you'll see...
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#7 Niall Conroy

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 08:03 AM

Will expose perfectly. Also negative films have a great latitude and there's no need to expose accurately. Just shot and you'll see...


beautiful, thanks.

Do you have any opinion in the 85 filter vs. no 85 filter debate?

i guess i'll shoot with it, just in case. (in daylight)
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#8 Miguel Loredo

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 09:20 AM

beautiful, thanks.

Do you have any opinion in the 85 filter vs. no 85 filter debate?

i guess i'll shoot with it, just in case. (in daylight)


My advice is to make things simplier in Super8(you can with this camera) and shoot with the internal filter normally. Canon internal filters are not one of those of bad quality and should be still ok in that camera. To enable the filter all you have to do is cut out the lower notch in the cartridge. By doing this you are exposing the Vision 200 as ASA 100, which is not only ok but also recommended by Kodak to achieve best results.
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#9 Jason Burlingame

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Posted 02 October 2011 - 11:33 AM

beautiful, thanks.

Do you have any opinion in the 85 filter vs. no 85 filter debate?

i guess i'll shoot with it, just in case. (in daylight)


Make sure that you test. Always test your camera before using it on a project that counts. This is a 40 year old camera you know.

85 filter. You need a 85 filter for films that are tungsten balanced if you are going to shoot outside (because there is no tungsten lighting). If you shoot without this filter in day light you will get a blueish tent on your film.

I know you are new to film and coming from digital congrads. Let me tell you something about filters. Sense film does not have a white balance like digi, you must manually set the natural color tempture with filters. I hope this helps.

Do not use your built in filter if you want professional results. These built in filters are dust magnets, and are made out of cheap plastic that tends to degrade over time; it probally has. Do not depend on these filters. Instead buy a new 85 filter (that screws on the lens) from a store or get it from a freind. If you really don't believe me see for yourself, and compare.

Also can't stress this enough with people who come from digital cinema. Please learn how to properly expose film, and do not shoot your first cartridge on a serious project. If anyone is serious about super 8mm or even 16mm and 35mm, learn the craft first by testing and experimenting. Yes you will have to invest time and some money, but it is better then having to ruin your first project because of out of focus, overexposed, unbalanced film. Everything counts with film.

If someone does not have a background in film I recommend taking a black and white film based photography class. This will be a cheaper and fun way to learn how to properly expose film. You not only get to learn how to take great pictures with film, but you also learn how to process the film and make prints in the dark room (Very cool).

One more thing, if you go on filming your project without learning proper exposure with film. Remember if you get unsatisfactoring results, do not blame it on the film, but on the lack of experience with film.

PS I would like to see your film when it is finished.

Jason
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#10 Niall Conroy

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Posted 03 October 2011 - 04:34 PM

Make sure that you test. Always test your camera before using it on a project that counts. This is a 40 year old camera you know.

85 filter. You need a 85 filter for films that are tungsten balanced if you are going to shoot outside (because there is no tungsten lighting). If you shoot without this filter in day light you will get a blueish tent on your film.

I know you are new to film and coming from digital congrads. Let me tell you something about filters. Sense film does not have a white balance like digi, you must manually set the natural color tempture with filters. I hope this helps.

Do not use your built in filter if you want professional results. These built in filters are dust magnets, and are made out of cheap plastic that tends to degrade over time; it probally has. Do not depend on these filters. Instead buy a new 85 filter (that screws on the lens) from a store or get it from a freind. If you really don't believe me see for yourself, and compare.

Also can't stress this enough with people who come from digital cinema. Please learn how to properly expose film, and do not shoot your first cartridge on a serious project. If anyone is serious about super 8mm or even 16mm and 35mm, learn the craft first by testing and experimenting. Yes you will have to invest time and some money, but it is better then having to ruin your first project because of out of focus, overexposed, unbalanced film. Everything counts with film.

If someone does not have a background in film I recommend taking a black and white film based photography class. This will be a cheaper and fun way to learn how to properly expose film. You not only get to learn how to take great pictures with film, but you also learn how to process the film and make prints in the dark room (Very cool).

One more thing, if you go on filming your project without learning proper exposure with film. Remember if you get unsatisfactoring results, do not blame it on the film, but on the lack of experience with film.

PS I would like to see your film when it is finished.

Jason


i appreciate all this, Jason. But i feel i should clarify that I have worked with film many times and understand it (although, i am by no means at professional level).
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Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

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