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How to Record Sound with 16mm


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#1 Andy Han

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 08:44 AM

I am thinking about purchasing Arriflex 16BL, but going over the details and technicalities beforehand.

I want to record sound on location and was wondering about if I need a separate 24fps sync sound motor for the camera
if I want to record sound digitally with a separate gear.

Thank you.
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#2 Simon Wyss

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 10:39 AM

Thank us for what?
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#3 Brian Drysdale

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 12:39 PM

You'll need a crystal control for the motor, which is usually an accessory for the BL, unless you have the model with the built in crystal motor (The EQ model if I remember correctly). There is also a sync tone output on the camera (50Hz or 60Hz), which was used to provide a cabled sync reference for the Nagra or other 1/4" tape recorder to provide a lock during playback.

Edited by Brian Drysdale, 12 November 2011 - 12:39 PM.

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#4 Will Montgomery

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 11:19 AM

How long of a run will you need sync sound for? If this is edited digitally and you have short cuts you may even be ok with a non-crystal 24fps motor. Just slate properly (call out the takes) and record the audio with something like a Zoom h4n.

I shot inserts for a music performance on a 16mm Canon Scoopic and had no problem slipping the cuts in by just matching up movements. Not the safest way but for something with obvious sync points it works.



If you are doing longer runs more than a minute or two at a time then crystal & tone would be best. Those Zoom recorders (or equivalent) are really great. There's one with a cheap video camera built in which is even better for syncing things up later. I've usually got a couple of 5Ds and a film camera going on an event shoot so it's a problem I run into a lot.
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#5 Michael Beam

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 09:00 PM

Hey Andy,

I purchased an Arriflex 16BL on Ebay just this July with a video tap and Tobin upgrade. I am pleased and excited about it. My advice? Go for it. I'm also looking into sound. Call the folks at Visual Products. I purchased a power cable and a small video monitor for the video tap from them. They'll answer all your questions and give you the attention you need no matter how big or small your purchase. They are a goldmine. Just saving up for support and sound. You can buy an analog recorder then digitalise it (you can do the same with the film and edit it on your computer.) No matter if I fall on my face with my first feature I own the equipment and can keep on filming. It's a very cost effective way. Read Robert Rodriguez's book "Rebel Without a Crew" and just DO IT.

Michael E.
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#6 flavio filho

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 10:30 AM

Hey Andy,

I purchased an Arriflex 16BL on Ebay just this July with a video tap and Tobin upgrade. I am pleased and excited about it. My advice? Go for it. I'm also looking into sound. Call the folks at Visual Products. I purchased a power cable and a small video monitor for the video tap from them. They'll answer all your questions and give you the attention you need no matter how big or small your purchase. They are a goldmine. Just saving up for support and sound. You can buy an analog recorder then digitalise it (you can do the same with the film and edit it on your computer.) No matter if I fall on my face with my first feature I own the equipment and can keep on filming. It's a very cost effective way. Read Robert Rodriguez's book "Rebel Without a Crew" and just DO IT.

Michael E.



Hi Michael.

Can you give more details about your equipment? You said you bought a video tap for your BL? I have a 16s myself, and thinking about the possibilities.

And about recording SOUND with an Arri S, or similars... How you guys do regarding the NOISE of the camera (in case you have to record sound in crystal mode, in close-up let's say you have to?).

Thanks,
Flavio
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#7 Ian Cooper

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 11:43 AM

Hi Michael.

Can you give more details about your equipment? You said you bought a video tap for your BL? I have a 16s myself, and thinking about the possibilities.

And about recording SOUND with an Arri S, or similars... How you guys do regarding the NOISE of the camera (in case you have to record sound in crystal mode, in close-up let's say you have to?).

Thanks,
Flavio


Don't know about the 16S (I've never heard one first hand), but I've recorded sound alongside both a K3 and a Beaulieu R16 - both of which do passable coffee grinder impersonations. So long as you are filming/recording outdoors and using a shotgun microphone which is positioned in front of the camera (and just to one side) as far as it can go, so the camera falls in the null of the microphone response pattern, then I found I couldn't hear the sound of the camera above the general ambient outside atmosphere (in the countryside, so fairly quiet).

If you're trying to film sync-speech inside a room with the camera 15ft from the subject matter, then I think you need to start thinking about a blimp or an alternative more appropriate camera.
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#8 flavio filho

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 12:12 PM

Don't know about the 16S (I've never heard one first hand), but I've recorded sound alongside both a K3 and a Beaulieu R16 - both of which do passable coffee grinder impersonations. So long as you are filming/recording outdoors and using a shotgun microphone which is positioned in front of the camera (and just to one side) as far as it can go, so the camera falls in the null of the microphone response pattern, then I found I couldn't hear the sound of the camera above the general ambient outside atmosphere (in the countryside, so fairly quiet).

If you're trying to film sync-speech inside a room with the camera 15ft from the subject matter, then I think you need to start thinking about a blimp or an alternative more appropriate camera.


Thanks, Ian.

Actually, I'm ALREADY thinking about another camera.
The first ones I have to shoot have no need to sound whatsoever. So that would be OK.
Problem will be after the first shorts, then I'll want dialogue. And another camera.

Let's see.

Thanks,
Flavio
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