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Shooting sync sound with a Canon Scoopic 16m: Insane?


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#1 Matt Stevens

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 09:22 PM

I would love to shoot 16mm. Only recently have any of the cameras become 'affordable.' But shooting sync sound with a Canon Scoopic seems like a problem child.

How do you record your actors without having the camera a mile away at full zoom?

Just looking for thoughts here. The Scoopic is a camera I could learn 16mm on and when they are in good shape, they deliver stupendous imagery. But again... Sound is an issue. If I go 16mm, then I need to be able to record dialog. I can actually do that with certain Super8 cameras and not run into issues. But super8 cannot come close to what 16mm delivers.

Much thanks.
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#2 Vincent Sweeney

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 11:17 PM

I personally don't feel that it's worth the trouble people go through to try sound with loud cameras; it ends up becoming a very distracting issue when it should be your last and it will surely rob the story of something in the end. Why bother doing it at all in that case?

Aaton's and older SR's are so cheap now that if I were you, I'd rent one for dirt cheap for a weekend short. I got a quote for $3800 total for a month with primes not too long ago. Or save up and just buy one and learn that way, and you'd also have a feature-capable camera for something more serious later on... assuming you want to deal with owning a camera. They are all generally money pits, film or digital.
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#3 Matt Stevens

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 12:52 AM

Well, this is why I ask. I need to hear some sanity. My wife feels I have gone off the deep end this week. But $700 for a tip top 16M with all the accessories you could need, plus it was serviced AND has crystal sync... How do I say no?

Perhaps I should say no because we are going to buy a Scarlet? :P
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#4 Will Montgomery

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 11:14 AM

I have three Scoopics and one is actually very quiet (usually). It is a sync modified one. Canon had a company modify a few Scoopic MS's for crystal. This is not the Film Group mod, it's an earlier one that the Film Group guys say is not very good but the camera is actually noticeably quieter.

That said, it can be distracting depending on what you are shooting. Music videos or in a concert? No problem. A speech at a wedding? Be prepared for heads to turn as soon as that starts running.

If you are shooting something scripted then it might be a tossup; you would more than likely need to replace the dialog but having the actual audio as a guide will be useful.

Scoopics are GREAT for what they were intended...capturing football games from the stands for coaches to revue later and for b-roll type news gathering. Amazing as a step up from Super 8 as all that automatic exposure and easy loading makes it a gem for anything you would shoot on Super 8.
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#5 Will Montgomery

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 11:19 AM

How do you record your actors without having the camera a mile away at full zoom?

Close mic them with a lavalier mic (or very directional close mic) then record ambient noise when the camera is not running. Then softly gate the lavalier mic track and add back in the ambient noise. Fairly easy to do. If the camera is back enough it might work.

And something like a Zoom H4n is a great little machine to record with.
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#6 Simon Wyss

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 01:40 PM

How do you record your actors without having the camera a mile away at full zoom?

Place camera in an ice box like they did in the Roaring Twenties. That is fun!
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#7 Matt Stevens

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 03:36 PM

Place camera in an ice box like they did in the Roaring Twenties. That is fun!

:lol: That's cool. Maybe we build a wooden box and use cushions or something. This would be for a scripted drama, shot on film in NYC and digital in Vietnam. We could easily shoot the entire film digital here in NY, but we don't want to. We really do not want to.

But we are funding ourselves and renting 16mm equipment is flat out impossible with our tiny little budget.

Will, we have an H4N. Amazing little device.

We had thought about shooting super8 and using a Nizo for closeups, since they are so darned quiet.

Two scenes are in cars, so that will prove difficult. We may be forced to shoot with a 5D and then post grain it up.
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#8 Curtis Alexander

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 07:39 PM

I shot a short with a scoopic in 2008 which you can see here: http://unidob.ca/

If you listen to it I think you will reconsider trying to record sound while the camera is running without some kind of sound dampening.

At some point I'm going to have to redo the sound completely. :)

I don't feel too bad about it b/c the whole entire thing was done analog, sound onto tape, mixed analog with insanely old equipment, etc and was a good learning experience.

There is no way I'd try to record dialogue while that sucker is running unless you can blimp the crap out of it.
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#9 Matt Stevens

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 10:09 AM

Wow. That really is loud. :P

Another bidder got the camera. I couldn't bring myself to do it, despite really really wanting it. Here is the auction...

http://www.ebay.com/...9#ht_500wt_1132

It would make a damn fine MOS camera. Were I not committed to a Scarlet purchase, I might have sprung for it.
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#10 Curtis Alexander

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 11:36 AM

Wow. That really is loud. :P

Another bidder got the camera. I couldn't bring myself to do it, despite really really wanting it. Here is the auction...

http://www.ebay.com/...9#ht_500wt_1132

It would make a damn fine MOS camera. Were I not committed to a Scarlet purchase, I might have sprung for it.


Everybody that is buying a scarlet should at least have a scoopic or a k3 or bolex or somethin'. :)

I'm really going to try to give my k3 a workout this winter.
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#11 Jean-Louis Seguin

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 11:59 AM

A quiet sync camera I would recommend is the CP-16 and CP-16R series.
You should be able to get one for under $1000 and when well maintained, they can be amazingly quiet.

Cheers,
Jean-Louis
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#12 Gregg MacPherson

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 03:26 PM

I would love to shoot 16mm. Only recently have any of the cameras become 'affordable.'


I like ACL's. There are some bargains on eBay. Some people put the likely price on their camera or even over price it and wait for someone to see it. Others just put a very low starting price and accept whatever happens over the few days. This is an example. Actually an ACL II S16, but no 400' mags and I don't think it had a S16 zoom. Sold for $798.

http://www.ebay.com/...984.m1438.l2649

You need to know when a camera last had a proffessional lube and check over. Where are you located? Access to servicing expertise could be a deciding factor in buying or not buying a camera.

Cheers,
Gregg
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