Jump to content


Photo

arri 416


  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

#1 mo samra

mo samra
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 34 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 12 December 2011 - 07:17 PM

Hey guys I am an aspiring cinematographer who has gotten the chance to shoot a short film over the summer with a group of aspiring filmmakers. We are scrapping a budget together, but we are going to possibly shooting with an Arri 416 supper 16mm film camera. I have never shot a motion picture with film, just stills. is it impossible to shoot with this camera? what I mean is is it extremely complex and difficult to where only experienced men and women can achieve an exposure with a super 16mm film camera?

Any advise, tips, or experience story's would be wonderful!!

thanks much guys,
Mo Samra
  • 0

#2 Marcus Joseph

Marcus Joseph
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 404 posts
  • Other
  • Sydney, Australia

Posted 12 December 2011 - 09:27 PM

It's rather straightforward, trust your light meter and keep track of your stock to get a clear shooting ratio. Your lighting has to be a little instinctive at times and if you really pull yourself into it, you'll probably be pretty surprised with the end result.
  • 0

#3 mo samra

mo samra
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 34 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 12 December 2011 - 09:59 PM

keep track of your stock to get a clear shooting ratio. Your lighting has to be a little instinctive at times



do you mind going more in depth on this?

thank you:)
  • 0

#4 Brian Drysdale

Brian Drysdale
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 5069 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 13 December 2011 - 10:33 AM

do you mind going more in depth on this?

thank you:)


Basically keep an eye on the number of takes you do and plan out the coverage you need for each scene. IF you don't you could find yourself going over the amount of stock you've allocated to the film.

Also, make sure your camera assistant is comfortable with the camera and loading the magazines. If they haven't much experience, there's always a chance something will go wrong inside the changing bag and they shouldn't panic if it does.
  • 0

#5 mo samra

mo samra
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 34 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 14 December 2011 - 12:47 PM

thanks for the tips guys!

but on the side of getting a correct exposure, and good image, is it hard to accomplish on film?
  • 0

#6 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 7116 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 14 December 2011 - 01:23 PM

Film is much more forging than digital. You want to err on the side of OVER exposure as opposed to UNDER exposure as it's more range on the highlight side of things. Also, you'll need to understand what your light meter is telling you, but at the same time, most of us tend to light by eye, safe in the knowledge it's on the film.

You should measure and get marks for focus, though I'm not sure how good the 416 viewing system is (i hear it's tops, but can't speak for that), but you'll also be able to see, within reason, if it's out of focus or not on through the finder. I find it much better than any digital finder (speaking of the SR3 at present).

Also, don't forget to check the gate on occasion; hairs can sneak in. normally you'd check it before moving on to the next set-up.

It's a thrilling experience your first time on film, and you will be surprised, sometimes pleasantly (mostly) , sometimes unpleasantly-- just maintain your focus on what you're doing.

Also, learn how the camera sounds. You can often hear a problem if there is one.
  • 0

#7 mo samra

mo samra
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 34 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 14 December 2011 - 02:14 PM

Film is much more forging than digital. You want to err on the side of OVER exposure as opposed to UNDER exposure as it's more range on the highlight side of things.

Im a bit confused on the first statement, could you possibly clarify please?

thanks for the rest of the information!!!

very helpful:)

Edited by mo samra, 14 December 2011 - 02:14 PM.

  • 0

#8 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 7116 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 14 December 2011 - 02:18 PM

Film has more latitude for over exposure than it does for under exposure; meaning you can pull out more detail/information for highlights than from shadows. This being the case, if you're in doubt, open up the iris a little bit and get more exposure on the negative (assuming your'e shooting negative film and not reversal). Digital is the opposite; with digital, highlights are what you "expose," or "protect" for, meaning you'd err on the side of under-exposing digital systems a bit if you're unsure.
  • 0

#9 dave smith

dave smith

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 4 posts
  • Student

Posted 14 December 2011 - 02:57 PM

Film is much more forging than digital.

It is a typo - forging = forgiving ;)

Shooting film is great - enjoy, but remember to plan what you are doing first and don't be afraid to rehearse before takes - stock costs money!
  • 0

#10 mo samra

mo samra
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 34 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 14 December 2011 - 04:31 PM

so its possible for a student who has never shot with super 16mm film to make a project?

and thank you guys so much for the feedback!
  • 0

#11 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 7116 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 14 December 2011 - 04:33 PM

Of course. There is, afterall, a first time for everything. And, if you ever shot any film (stills for example) than it all carries over.
  • 0

#12 mo samra

mo samra
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 34 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 14 December 2011 - 04:49 PM

I shoot stills all the time, i have a canon A-1 that I use. but i feel like the prosses of loading the camera making sure everything is alright/ working with the cameras setup all is allot harder and different.
  • 0

#13 Chris Burke

Chris Burke
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1675 posts
  • Boston, MA

Posted 14 December 2011 - 06:04 PM

I shoot stills all the time, i have a canon A-1 that I use. but i feel like the prosses of loading the camera making sure everything is alright/ working with the cameras setup all is allot harder and different.



It is kind of like driving a manual transmission car instead of an automatic. Yes, it is more work, but not hard work. Work none the less and the end result is worth it. Rehearse your shots over and over. Get an AC that knows the camera.
  • 0

#14 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 7116 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 14 December 2011 - 06:05 PM

Well it certainly is different; there's a lot more of smaller film! But in truth, loading is just muscle memory. You should try to find some crap film and practice on the thing first before you shoot it. In the end, the loading/unloading/making sure it's not scratched to hell is not really all that difficult (loader used to be an entry level job after all!). It's the "knowing how to shoot film and expose it" which is generally a lot more nebulous and difficult.

While I haven't loaded a 416 ever, when I first got my hands on an SR3 it only took me 1 quick "this is how you load it" demo and 2 or 3 practice runs before my hands were doing the work without really thinking.
  • 0

#15 mo samra

mo samra
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 34 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 14 December 2011 - 06:32 PM

thanks guys!

Adrian,
you stated It's the "knowing how to shoot film and expose it" which is generally a lot more nebulous and difficult.

Thats what my main concern is, is there anyway I can learn proper methods for film by a book/ video tutorial or anything that can help me out?
  • 0

#16 Kenny Beaumont

Kenny Beaumont

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 1 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 28 December 2011 - 11:30 PM

One of the good things about the 416 is that it will not let you run the camera unless the mag has the correct sized loop. In fact, it will give you an error message telling whether the bad loop is too long or too short. So in that respect it's a little more safe to run as a newbie.
Good luck!
  • 0

#17 Simon Wyss

Simon Wyss
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1405 posts
  • Other
  • Basel, Switzerland

Posted 29 December 2011 - 02:25 AM

is it impossible to shoot with this camera?

Oh, yes, quite. One will have to wire it, lace film into it, put a lens on it, set diaphragm and focus, frame, and press the release button. I mean, that is a challenge to an aspiring cinematographer.

Basically, film cameras are made for shooting men to the moon but some models are rather destined for deep-sea mining.

Film is a four-letter word. FILM!

  • 0

#18 Adrian Sierkowski

Adrian Sierkowski
  • Sustaining Members
  • 7116 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles, Ca

Posted 29 December 2011 - 09:51 AM

Hey Mo; sorry I totally forgot to get back to you. As for exposing film properly, it's just practice my friend. Try to track down some stock tests online, for over/under exposure of your stock and try to get time in for a stock test, with different lighting ratios. With film, though, how it looks to your eye is just about how it's going to look on film.
  • 0

#19 Andy_Alderslade

Andy_Alderslade
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1055 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • London, UK

Posted 29 December 2011 - 03:06 PM

thanks guys!

Adrian,
you stated It's the "knowing how to shoot film and expose it" which is generally a lot more nebulous and difficult.

Thats what my main concern is, is there anyway I can learn proper methods for film by a book/ video tutorial or anything that can help me out?


Hey Mo, well the first step is to get your light meter out and experiment, shooting film is easy, thats the ironic thing about it. Becoming a master of it is a little bit harder.

Do you have access to a basic 16mm camera and say a 100' of film or two before your project, you should experiment doing some over and under-exposure tests. Otherwise you could learn a little a bit with slide film.

This is one of my favourite books that covers 16mm 'Cinematography'

Best of luck.
  • 0

#20 mo samra

mo samra
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 34 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 29 December 2011 - 11:46 PM

Hey guys, thanks so much on all the responses and feedback on this topic!


does anyone know where I could find a basic 16mm camera I can practice with?
also where I would purchase the flm stock for it?
  • 0


CineLab

CineTape

Wooden Camera

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Metropolis Post

Visual Products

rebotnix Technologies

Aerial Filmworks

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

The Slider

Technodolly

Ritter Battery

Paralinx LLC

Willys Widgets

Glidecam

Abel Cine

Tai Audio

Opal

Rig Wheels Passport

FJS International, LLC

The Slider

rebotnix Technologies

Willys Widgets

Wooden Camera

Rig Wheels Passport

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

CineTape

Opal

CineLab

Visual Products

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Tai Audio

FJS International, LLC

Glidecam

Abel Cine

Aerial Filmworks

Ritter Battery

Paralinx LLC

Metropolis Post

Technodolly