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Kodak introduces new VISION3 50D Color Negative Film 5203/7203


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#1 Tim Tyler

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 12:16 PM

http://motion.kodak....ID=go&idhbx=50d

camera-films_5203_hero.jpg

KODAK VISION3 50D Color Negative Film 5203/7203 is a low speed daylight-balanced addition to the VISION3 Film portfolio offering the world's finest grain to ensure a pristine, clean image that is full of color and detail.

Like other films in the VISON3 Film family, VISION3 50D Film features unrivaled highlight latitude, flexibility in postproduction, and proven archival stability. The expanded dynamic range allows for increased creative control in the extremes of exposure, especially high contrast daylight exteriors. Advances in grain and sharpness along with increased exposure latitude also make this film ideal for recorder output.

Experience the improved extreme exposure performance and consistent VISION3 Film family look along with unsurpassed image quality, real-world flexibility, and digital postproduction compatibility. Enjoy the benefits of the finest grain capture film with the color and tone reproduction of the VISION3 Film portfolio.

Data Sheet
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#2 Claus Harding

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 05:19 PM

Dear god, I wish they would strip that down for Super-8 use..... :)

Claus.
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#3 Vincent Sweeney

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 05:30 PM

If not, Pro8mm likely will.
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#4 Freya Black

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 09:27 AM

The 50D was previously based on Vision3 technology, so I'm guessing they must have something new up their sleeves! Maybe we will see vision4 stocks soon! :)

Really would like to see what this stock is like in 16mm!

love

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#5 rob spence

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 12:11 PM

This could be amazing on super 16!
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#6 John Holland

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 02:18 PM

This really confirms that Kodak have lost the plot , if they do wont to save film as a capture medium ? then the effort should have been put into 1000iso stock but alas !
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#7 K Borowski

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 06:30 PM

Problem is John: People don't want grain in their high-speed films. The only true-speed 3200 film was made, and discontinued almost 30 years ago now!


In fairness, digital beat the pants off of film a long time ago in terms of "speed limit." Real neg. speed topped out at about 640-800ASA in the stocks we saw. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if '19 is as fast as V800 was ( # '289 ).

There's really no NEED, frankly, to go faster than 1000 for any practical application in shooting, that I can think of. If you're a "speed freak," you can brag about 100s of thousands with almost any digital movie camera that will be coming out within the next year or two.

Personally, I have a hard enough time getting OPEN enough shooting outdoors with 50 film.




I know "100,000" is a cool number, but it's so sensitive as to be impractical for almost any lens and application. Most digital sensors have to have built-in ND filters already to bring them down to an equivalent of 50 for outdoors daylight, right?




As an aside, John, I know Kodak stabbed you in the back discontinued your favorite stock (they did this to me as well a couple years ago), but if you haven't shot their stock in decades, as you claim, how can you honestly assess what it's like to shoot Kodak?

I tend to shoot more EK than Fuji, but, at the same time, I couldn't honestly bad-mouth any of Fuji's stocks either. Even its different pallatte is easily tamed with a twist of a timing knob.

I'd say the only honest gripe you could give Kodak is its color stability, but that isn't the cinematographer's problem anyway, is it?
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#8 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 06:58 PM

I'd also say that on 5219 you could certainly push to 1000 without too much of a penalty (nothing a Realativity couldn't really take care of.)
That being said, I'd like to see a 1600 or 3200 stock come out, but in truth, i don't think it would get much use. It, as Karl mentions, isn't really worth the added grain, and with a 500T stock I could shoot without film lighting in an urban environment already anyway-- but wouldn't really want to. My point being you're going to be lighting your scenes anyway, and as soon as you start doing that, the 3200 or 1600 film really does become too fast for it's own good. Or at least that's my opinion.

Still, i don't quite see the point of a new 50D, aside from maybe helping streamline manufacture. I'd be much happier if Kodak got a bit ballsier and made some "look" stocks, which aren't as bland as the V3 is out of the can (though ti can be finessed amazingly). Hell, I'd love to see some new reversal films come out, like a MP verision of Elite Chrome 400... but that's just me. If anything, more highlight latitude on the '03 may be worth the new stock; but it remains to be seen.

I should note, I often shy away from D stocks in general, as I tend to like to filter a 100T (RIP :( ) or a 200T with an 81ef for my day ext shots; again just me.
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#9 John Holland

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Posted 16 December 2011 - 01:14 PM

Karl i didnt diss Kodaks new stock over Fuji , just dont understand why they have replaced the old 50 iso stock with another one !
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#10 Freya Black

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 04:06 PM

Karl i didnt diss Kodaks new stock over Fuji , just dont understand why they have replaced the old 50 iso stock with another one !


They go through the stocks in order for whatever reason, and 50d is the first to get the upgrades.

Yes a new 50d stock isn't that exciting but it means that the new vision4 stocks are not likely to be that far away, and a vision4 200T could be more exciting!

A lower grain 200t in 16mm would be entertaining for me especially because of the BBC obsession of film without grain. Of course really, the BBC have a thing against film anyway and the grain thing is just an excuse but I get cheap entertainment from people high up in the BBC looking silly. I guess it's something to do with the contrast between that sense of importance they try to exude and the fact that they are talking drivel. I like the discontinuity to be very visible. :)

Personally I like a bit of film grain depending on the stock, YMMV of course!

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#11 Freya Black

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 04:22 PM

Still, i don't quite see the point of a new 50D, aside from maybe helping streamline manufacture. I'd be much happier if Kodak got a bit ballsier and made some "look" stocks, which aren't as bland as the V3 is out of the can (though ti can be finessed amazingly). Hell, I'd love to see some new reversal films come out, like a MP verision of Elite Chrome 400... but that's just me. If anything, more highlight latitude on the '03 may be worth the new stock; but it remains to be seen.


Strangely Kodak do have another film stock they have kept a bit quiet! (keeping your products a secret, way to go Kodak!) There is an alternative 500T stock which they are selling as a low budget stock for tv. I think it looks kinda nice from what I have seen. It's a bit more grainy but I think the grain adds a little something. I think it looks a bit more cinematic than the vision stocks. I think it's called 5230 but I'm not good at remembering numbers at the best of times! If I had to be critical I'd say it tends towards the brown slightly which is a bit of an overdone look right now, but at the same time it has its own thing going on. I have a strong gut feeling it might be worth checking out. I feel it's a lot less boring. ;) I need to see more of it tho.

love

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#12 Chris Burke

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 11:19 PM

Strangely Kodak do have another film stock they have kept a bit quiet! (keeping your products a secret, way to go Kodak!) There is an alternative 500T stock which they are selling as a low budget stock for tv. I think it looks kinda nice from what I have seen. It's a bit more grainy but I think the grain adds a little something. I think it looks a bit more cinematic than the vision stocks. I think it's called 5230 but I'm not good at remembering numbers at the best of times! If I had to be critical I'd say it tends towards the brown slightly which is a bit of an overdone look right now, but at the same time it has its own thing going on. I have a strong gut feeling it might be worth checking out. I feel it's a lot less boring. ;) I need to see more of it tho.

love

Freya

they are not keeping a secret, it has been on their website for a few months now. it is a great stock and a good alternative to the vision stocks.
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#13 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 12:21 PM

5230, from talking with a Kodak sales rep on a set recently is their alternative 500T for "cheaper" productions. From what I'm told it's very similar to the 19 stock with a bit less room on the highlights and slightly larger grain. I haven't had a chance to use it yet, and honestly, I don't think there is too much need for another 500T which is so similar to '19; just a bit truncated. If anything I'd love some more choices, al 'la fuji with a "vivid" and "pastel" kodak choice-- keep the V3 stuff as is, toss the '30, and give me something with a lot of saturation and punch which is more forgiving and in a larger EI range than just 100D reversal.

But that's me dreaming.

Also, from speaking to Kodak sales rep, the '03 is very similar to the '01 which was a top stock in and of itself, but it does go further in the highlights, and there is (somehow) less grain. I'd say a test or two is in order. Hopefully I'll get a chance to sometime after the holidays.
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#14 K Borowski

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 08:39 PM

Just want to politely remind fellow forum professionals that they should know better than trusting a number stamped on a can by the Eastman Kodak company to be in any way indicative of the characteristics of the product inside.


Or would anyone care to compare the characteristic curve of 2383 that is currently in use to that of the product when it was introduced in the '90s? I guarantee the two are not the same. There've probably been at least two upgrades since then. If Kodak itself doesn't have any obligation to treat product numbers as "sacred," why should its consumers?

Whenever EK puts out a notice about its control strip values changing, that's a clue that something is afoot. Not that it will be a huge change, but it wasn't that long ago that Kodak was constantly improving its "500T" stock, think this was in the days of "EXR 500T." Just the name EXR 500T didn't correspond to a specific emulsion number (I don't mean the emulsion batch, the emulsion coat, I mean the number of the general emulsion of that speed and brand of film.)


To put it more bluntly: Every frame of film is slightly different, depending on position on the master roll, emulsion batch used to coat the master roll, storage, processor turbulation, time, temperature, and agitation.

Every variable is going to cause your tests to deviate, perhaps significantly from Eastman Kodak's or FujiFilm's ideals.



As far as the difference between "5230" and "5219," it wouldn't surprise me if '30 were just the very edges of a master roll, or old '18 they didn't sell. Compare the cost of printing a label as opposed to the cost of throwing out 228,000 usable linear feet of 35mm. . .
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#15 Freya Black

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 10:26 AM

they are not keeping a secret, it has been on their website for a few months now. it is a great stock and a good alternative to the vision stocks.


I get the impression you are a big fan of the literal Chris! ;)

love

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#16 Freya Black

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 10:37 AM

As far as the difference between "5230" and "5219," it wouldn't surprise me if '30 were just the very edges of a master roll, or old '18 they didn't sell. Compare the cost of printing a label as opposed to the cost of throwing out 228,000 usable linear feet of 35mm. . .


I've heard a few people talk about 5230 appearing to be more like 5218 than the recent vision stocks. To my eye it looks a little different on the stuff I have seen but that may be the way it was shot or age, or I may not remember 5218 that well anymore. I don't think it looks like 5219 that much but it's a subtle difference.

So of your two theories the latter one sounds more likely to me and might make for a smart marketing move on Kodaks part.

Either way, I ironically prefer it to the 5219.

Much prefer the exr stocks to either tho! Yes it's a shame theres nothing like expression anymore!

love

Freya
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#17 John Holland

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 01:17 PM

Freya you must get into Fuji Vivid Stocks . Love John .
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#18 Indiefilmstock

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 03:49 PM

If anyone still wants the 5201 50D stock, we've got factory sealed film at a discount. We've also got ends and recans at really low prices starting at .06 cents per foot!

Richard Kaufman
Comtel Pro Media
tel: 818-450-1122
richard@comtelpm.com
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#19 Andy_Alderslade

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 05:15 PM

Intestinally enough this Summer I had to mix fuji eterna stocks with vision 2 for a project, never in the same scene of course, but no would have known!

I am hearing rumours though that Kodak are going to release something faster. What I don't get about Kodak in this times when their competitors are giving their products sexy names like, Vivid, Alexa, Epic - why do they just refer to things as numbers. Lets have some PR people, their new '30 stock doesn't even have a name. Perhaps, Kodak 'Luxure', Kodak 'Rare!' or Kodak 'Organica' !
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