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1000 fps lit with 24kW Dino


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#1 Nicholas Burrough

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 04:52 AM

I have been asked to light a 1000 FPS shot in front of a green screen.

I understand that 5kW lights and above do not cause flicker at 1000 fps, but is the same true for a 24kW Dino?

Will the individual bulbs cause flicker or will the flicker be eliminated when the bulbs are spread out over 3 phases?

I presume using a diffusion gel might help reduce flicker but I really need all the light I get can.

Any suggestions?

I am shooting in Europe with 50Hz and 3 phase generators.

Thanks,


Nicholas Burrough
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#2 Nathan Porter

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 07:16 AM

I have been asked to light a 1000 FPS shot in front of a green screen.

I understand that 5kW lights and above do not cause flicker at 1000 fps, but is the same true for a 24kW Dino?

Will the individual bulbs cause flicker or will the flicker be eliminated when the bulbs are spread out over 3 phases?

I presume using a diffusion gel might help reduce flicker but I really need all the light I get can.

Any suggestions?

I am shooting in Europe with 50Hz and 3 phase generators.

Thanks,


Nicholas Burrough


Put each 1/3 of the dino on a seperate phase, thereby minimizing the flicker.

Edited by Nathan Porter, 12 January 2012 - 07:17 AM.

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#3 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 07:27 AM

I have been asked to light a 1000 FPS shot in front of a green screen.

I understand that 5kW lights and above do not cause flicker at 1000 fps, but is the same true for a 24kW Dino?

Will the individual bulbs cause flicker or will the flicker be eliminated when the bulbs are spread out over 3 phases?

I presume using a diffusion gel might help reduce flicker but I really need all the light I get can.

Any suggestions?

I am shooting in Europe with 50Hz and 3 phase generators.

Thanks,


Nicholas Burrough


The reason 5K and larger lamps don't flicker is the size of the globes and filaments with their long decay times -- so a bunch of 1K globes will probably still flicker at 1000 fps.
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#4 Nicholas Burrough

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 08:23 AM

The reason 5K and larger lamps don't flicker is the size of the globes and filaments with their long decay times -- so a bunch of 1K globes will probably still flicker at 1000 fps.


Thanks, I understand that the 1kW par bulbs will flicker due to their low wattage.
My real question is does anyone know if the flickering will be visible if spread out over 3 phases or will the phases compensate for the flicker and give a seemingly constant light at 1000 FPS.

Many thanks!
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#5 Adrian Sierkowski

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 09:37 AM

Even if they did balance out; wouldn't it basically give you less than ideal output of the light as part of your bulbs are out/off due to being on a different phase.
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#6 Daniel John Lee

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 12:55 PM

Why don't you just get a bunch of 5KWs or 10KWs? It will be cheaper anyway.
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#7 Toby Orzano

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 03:50 PM

High speed is getting pretty trendy these days. A lot of people are thinking, "Let's make a cool music video with a Phantom. What would look cool at 1000fps?" rather than, "we've got this concept and vision for a really cool music video and we need a tool to make it happen. oh, phantom looks like a good option." For the record, 1000fps plays back really freaking slow. I gaffed a music video where in pre-pro everyone was talking 1000fps and when it came down to it on set we never went above 400fps and still ended up shooting literally hours of footage for a 4-minute video. Make sure the shoot really requires 1000fps before you choose your lights if you are on a budget.

That being said, to get back on topic, I wouldn't mess around with the dinos either. Big single-lamp units will be the sure and consistent bet. Supposedly 2k and larger are flicker-safe for 60hz (never used 2k myself but can confirm 5k+), but I do wonder whether 50hz would require going a little bigger (maybe only 5k and up?) Regardless, if you do indeed go for the full 1000fps you're probably not going to use anything smaller than 10k.
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#8 Stephen Williams

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 04:12 PM

That being said, to get back on topic, I wouldn't mess around with the dinos either. Big single-lamp units will be the sure and consistent bet. Supposedly 2k and larger are flicker-safe for 60hz (never used 2k myself but can confirm 5k+), but I do wonder whether 50hz would require going a little bigger (maybe only 5k and up?) Regardless, if you do indeed go for the full 1000fps you're probably not going to use anything smaller than 10k.


It's the Voltage & Amps rather than the hertz so you need to double the size in Europe, so where you think a 2k is required then 4k or 5k in reality is probably the minimium.
I have shot 1400 FPS with 5k's & 10K's, however my gaffer has used dino's on multi phase with good results.
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#9 Toby Orzano

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 09:21 PM

It's the Voltage & Amps rather than the hertz so you need to double the size in Europe


Right, I wasn't thinking intesnity, I was wondering about flicker. Would 2ks be more prone to flicker at 50hz than 60hz because of fewer (and thus longer) cycles per second?

Interesting to hear the dinos are okay on multi-phase. Good to know.
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#10 Stephen Williams

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 04:51 AM

Right, I wasn't thinking intesnity, I was wondering about flicker. Would 2ks be more prone to flicker at 50hz than 60hz because of fewer (and thus longer) cycles per second?

Interesting to hear the dinos are okay on multi-phase. Good to know.


A 2k at 110v is 18 amps
A 2K at 230v is 8.7 amps

A 100w dedo light at 12 V is 8.3 amps

A 2k at 230v & a 12v dedo light with have approx the same amount of flicker.

This is about from flicker from my gaffer's webstie.
http://www.davidsatz...flicker_en.html
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#11 Adam Frisch FSF

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 10:26 PM

A 2k at 110v is 18 amps
A 2K at 230v is 8.7 amps

A 100w dedo light at 12 V is 8.3 amps

A 2k at 230v & a 12v dedo light with have approx the same amount of flicker.

This is about from flicker from my gaffer's webstie.
http://www.davidsatz...flicker_en.html


Now, no guarantees, but - I've shot with Wendy lights at 1000fps and not had any flicker. They've got even smaller globes (think it's 650W). What's good about it is that it's instantly viewable on the playback, but still, please do tests if you can.
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#12 Jonas Spitzenhuber

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 10:01 AM

Eh, just for me to understand - Isn´t a Dino with it´s red 32A plug (thats how we´ve got them in germany) connected to three different phases anyways?
If i am right, what do you mean by putting each third on a different phase?

Thanks, Jonas
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#13 Stephen Williams

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 02:31 PM

Eh, just for me to understand - Isn´t a Dino with it´s red 32A plug (thats how we´ve got them in germany) connected to three different phases anyways?
If i am right, what do you mean by putting each third on a different phase?

Thanks, Jonas


If it's on a Red CEE plug then it will be on 3 phases, make sure if you dont use all the globes that you still split the phases.
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