Jump to content


Photo

EX3 slow motion


  • Please log in to reply
4 replies to this topic

#1 Michal Slusarczyk

Michal Slusarczyk

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 22 January 2012 - 05:25 AM

I'm using Sony EX3 and will do slow motion shots. I need to keep as good quality as possible, because EX3
is only 720p at 60fps. Shots I want to make will be full of dynamic water details, so for that reason I need to get image as good as possible. Besides, I need to make twice as much fps (120fps) of some shots by using Twixtor.
Is it good idea to use external recorder 422? I thought about Samurai Athomos (Pro Res) or Nano Flash, but I also read that there is no significant improvement of image quality with this configuration. Due to dynamic water splash and very small drops, certainly there will be visible compression artifacts.The main problem is that I have EX3 only on my list for these slow motion shots. The project is 1080p.
What is the way to keep the best quality of 720p with EX3? Does anybody have some experience with EX3 and slow motion with ext.recorder?
Best regards
  • 0

#2 Stephen Williams

Stephen Williams
  • Sustaining Members
  • 4708 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Europe

Posted 22 January 2012 - 01:42 PM

The highest quality external recorder will be good, with least compression. A great deal depends what your budget is. Why not use an Alexa or Epic for the shot as you want 120fps?

I'm using Sony EX3 and will do slow motion shots. I need to keep as good quality as possible, because EX3
is only 720p at 60fps. Shots I want to make will be full of dynamic water details, so for that reason I need to get image as good as possible. Besides, I need to make twice as much fps (120fps) of some shots by using Twixtor.
Is it good idea to use external recorder 422? I thought about Samurai Athomos (Pro Res) or Nano Flash, but I also read that there is no significant improvement of image quality with this configuration. Due to dynamic water splash and very small drops, certainly there will be visible compression artifacts.The main problem is that I have EX3 only on my list for these slow motion shots. The project is 1080p.
What is the way to keep the best quality of 720p with EX3? Does anybody have some experience with EX3 and slow motion with ext.recorder?
Best regards


  • 0

#3 Michal Slusarczyk

Michal Slusarczyk

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 23 January 2012 - 09:47 AM

[...] Why not use an Alexa or Epic for the shot as you want 120fps?


Thanks for reply. Unfortunately I am totally dependent on EX3 in this project. It's story about birds, nature, with no clear time limits (depends on circumstances, animals, weather etc.). It means that Alexa or Epic will kill the budget.
  • 0

#4 Phil Rhodes

Phil Rhodes
  • Sustaining Members
  • 11936 posts
  • Other

Posted 23 January 2012 - 11:32 AM

Success with motion interpolating tools like Twixtor is extremely dependent on the subject. While the showreels for these tools often depict near-magical results, these are often possible only with rather carefully chosen source material. I don't want to criticise unfairly, though, as these tools have been used to great effect and can in many cases be something-for-nothing devices on a previously unheard-of level.

Things that work tend to be things that were moving fairly slowly anyway; you can turn slow into extremely slow quite effectively. Things that don't work tend to be things that are flickering through frame very fast, and which don't exist in the image in a consistent way. The software can't estimate motion very well where there aren't several successive frames of a broadly similar-looking object. Eye blinks, which take about a frame at "normal" speeds, are an example of this where you can get ugly distortion and irregularity on the eyelid.

The other problem is planes of motion: I once did a shot in which a woman was walking along a street with cars passing in the background, and the inbuilt "remap time" feature in After Effects had trouble separating the fast-moving car from the slow-moving woman, producing warping and rippling effects (referred to as "gloop") where the woman occluded the cars. The full Twixtor plugin is much more sophisticated and allows you to use mattes to separate objects for individual consideration, which is an effective solution but can require quite a bit of rotoscoping. If you can, you may wish to consider shooting elements that will be slowed down against green, as this will obviously help you separate objects.

If you were doing a drama, I'd tell you to shoot tests, but with animals I guess you may as well just shoot it and see what you can achieve. My feeling is that if you want to shoot a hummingbird's wings, that may be a problem of the "eye blink" variety, but if you have a big cat loping slowly toward you then you should be able to turn it into a nice moody 120fps glide.

I'm not sure if that's useful or just a stream of consciousness, but that's my experience with it. It can be great.

Edit: Here's the example I'm talking about:

It contains some fairly egregious examples of motion interpolation failing to get it right, and is there entirely to indicate the worst case scenario - I wouldn't want this to represent either what the technology is capable of, or my abilities!

P
  • 0

#5 Michal Slusarczyk

Michal Slusarczyk

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 6 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 24 January 2012 - 05:03 AM

Success with motion interpolating tools like Twixtor is extremely dependent on the subject. [...]


Thank you for this explanation. It seems that Twixtor appears very risky for my shots.
Now I must decide what recorder to choose. What compression will be better for 720p with small moving drops of water and many details in move - ProRes or mpeg2(I-frame)?
  • 0


Broadcast Solutions Inc

Ritter Battery

Metropolis Post

Tai Audio

Technodolly

CineLab

Rig Wheels Passport

Willys Widgets

Aerial Filmworks

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Glidecam

rebotnix Technologies

The Slider

FJS International, LLC

CineTape

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Visual Products

Wooden Camera

Paralinx LLC

Abel Cine

Opal

Visual Products

FJS International, LLC

Tai Audio

Wooden Camera

CineTape

Abel Cine

Technodolly

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Paralinx LLC

Glidecam

Aerial Filmworks

CineLab

Rig Wheels Passport

rebotnix Technologies

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Ritter Battery

Willys Widgets

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Metropolis Post

Opal

The Slider