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Kitchen Daytime Interior


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#1 Lindsay Mann

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Posted 26 January 2012 - 02:35 PM

So I have a shoot which involves a mother in a kitchen feeding her kids. A classic high key, bright white commercial look for a big name client.

I'm debating between two things right now: A) Ultrabounce/Foam core bounce vs. sending light through silks, and B ) Tungsten units (because it would give me more fire power) vs. HMI's

The location is this: Posted Image

I want there to be some hard sunlight coming through the window backlighting the subjects (foreground) and a large, very soft key/fill from the front that is large enough so they can move around a bit and stay in the light. I'm only worried that by bouncing, my light will go everywhere and it will look flat.

Do I need to use a booklight in order to achieve the shadowless look we're after? Or will bouncing work? Am I better off shooting something through two layers of 4x4 diff? I've got a couple 1.2 pars to work with, as well as some 2k's, 1k's, and kino's. I figured I'd use the kino's to fill at camera like in the overhead. Thoughts?

Posted Image
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#2 Guy Holt

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Posted 27 January 2012 - 05:24 PM

I want there to be some hard sunlight coming through the window backlighting the subjects (foreground) and a large, very soft key/fill from the front that is large enough so they can move around a bit and stay in the light. I'm only worried that by bouncing, my light will go everywhere and it will look flat. Do I need to use a booklight in order to achieve the shadowless look we're after? Or will bouncing work? Am I better off shooting something through two layers of 4x4 diff?


I would approach this somewhat differently. To create that classic high key bright white commercial look, I would bring one of the 1200 Pars through the window on the right, as far away from the window as possible, to throw the window light onto the wall with cabinets behind the island. I would fly a branch-o-loris just outside the window to create a little leaf break-up on the cabinets. This would have the effect of creating some contrast (light & shadow on the back wall.) I would then key with the second 1200 Par through a 6x or 8x frame of half grid diffusion from camera right (the same side as the window) as if it were “sky shine” from the same window.

Posted Image

Master shot of an iRobot commercial lit with a 4kw HMI Par (outside) & 1.8kw HMI Par (inside) powered from a 30A/240V dryer outlet through a step-down transformer/distro. Note: Sunny feel created by 4k Par on an overcast day. [/CENTER]

I would use a 4x8 floppie solid to cut the second 1200 off the back wall so as not to destroy the contrast we created on the back wall. I would use the 4’- 4 Bank Kinos from camera position for fill and a blue baby as a kicker from camera left. I would go easy on the back light with only one baby heavily blued and diffused.

Posted Image

Left: Transformer/Distro plugged into a 30A/240V dryer outlet. Right: 4K HMI Par under rain protection powered by Transformer/Distro [/CENTER]

I did a very similar set up recently for an iRobot spot (see photos attached.) The spot contrasted the iRobot Scooba designed to clean kitchen floors to the old mop and bucket approach. For the mop and bucket approach we had a haggard looking Mom slopping water all over the kitchen floor as kids ran slipping and sliding across the floor. Instead of a 1200, we brought a 4k Fresnel through the window and keyed from camera right with an 1800W Arrimax through an 8x frame of full grid cloth. We armed in a 4’ – 4 Bank Kino as a back light.

Posted Image

Left: Arri AS18 1800W Par powered from Transformer/Distro. Right: 4Kw and 1800W HMI ballasts powered from Transformer/Distro. [/CENTER]

Because we knew water would get everywhere, we used one of our 60A Transformer Distros on a Dryer Plug to power the 4K, 1800W HMI, and Kinos so that we could put a 100A Shock Block on the load side of the transformer/distro to provide Ground Fault protection inside around the wet kitchen floor. It was a good thing that we did, because it ended up pouring rain that day and so the Shock Block did double duty for the 4k that was outside the kitchen window. Use this link for more details about this set up.

Guy Holt, Gaffer, ScreenLight & Grip, Lightng & Grip Rental in Boston
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#3 David Ross

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Posted 28 January 2012 - 09:57 PM

I'm with Guy on this one... I love that white clean kitchen look... enjoy
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#4 Lindsay Mann

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 07:58 PM

Thanks so much for your thoughts, Guy. Really helpful just to get any other opinions from a professional that is not myself.

Yours is basically the setup that I went with. The back wall getting some light from the "outside" HMI. I ran into problems trying to get the sunlight cast I wanted though. Part of my problem was running behind schedule loading in and setting up, and part was the physical limitations of the space. I had a bad shadow from a cabinet on the back wall, when in an ideal world I would have taken time to sculpt a much more pleasing streak of sunlight across the lower cabinets and countertop.

I also wish I had a real background/translight out the window. I almost considered throwing a green screen up outside the window. But then I would have had to mount the "sunlight" separately and we didn't have time. I found it difficult to create a nice soft source from the window as well as a hard sunlight cast on the wall.

Posted Image

In the end we went with a book light through opal and I really wish we had the firepower to go through a thicker diffusion, because our lead cast shadows on her own body that weren't very motivated. We filled with Kino's, although I wish it had been a larger source and softer, again a limitation of time and crew. I understand your note to go easy on the backlight, and I think that's correct in most situations. But I really wanted a sharp edge to her hair on this commercial, motivated by the window. I don't think I went bright enough with the backlight here. My original thought was to use a Leko for the sunlight, and next time I'm really going to try it.

Posted Image

Overall, aside from the multitude of problems with the RED Epic melting down on us, I think shooting RAW will save me here. And The Cooke S4's were very pleasing. I had a small crew, but they worked tirelessly and I think it was a success.

I've been eyeing your transformers for a while now. They seem like a perfect option for the next time I need a 4K. Never knew anything like that existed!

Thanks again for the helpful feedback.
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#5 Peter Smuts

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:54 AM

Hello,

I really enjoyed this post and it was great the set-ups and results.

One question if you don't mind.
What is a book light?


Thank you.
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#6 Lindsay Mann

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 08:21 PM

Hello,

I really enjoyed this post and it was great the set-ups and results.

One question if you don't mind.
What is a book light?


Thank you.


Just saw this, and I'll try to post the finished spot when it's finished. Still doing a final color grade.

A book light is basically what the lower 1.2 Par is doing in that overhead image. It's an indirect source (in this case bouncing off of white foam core) then back through a frame of Opal diffusion. I guess the V-shape makes it look like an open book. The bigger the light, the easier it is to make this work correctly, since there's some light loss when bouncing and diffusing. In a perfect world, I would have done this all with a couple 4K's. Now that I know about Guy's transformer setup, I might be doing that on my next shoot.
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#7 Jon Rosenbloom

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 12:28 PM

Hey Lindsay, I took a look at one of your architecture interviews on your site. It looks great! I'm curious how you handled shooting quickly in an office with what I assume is mixed light: daylight, florescent, tungsten. Thanks.
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#8 Drew Maw

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 02:15 PM

In the end we went with a book light through opal and I really wish we had the firepower to go through a thicker diffusion, because our lead cast shadows on her own body that weren't very motivated. We filled with Kino's, although I wish it had been a larger source and softer, again a limitation of time and crew. I understand your note to go easy on the backlight, and I think that's correct in most situations. But I really wanted a sharp edge to her hair on this commercial, motivated by the window. I don't think I went bright enough with the backlight here. My original thought was to use a Leko for the sunlight, and next time I'm really going to try it.

Posted Image



As I'm seeing it, and this might have been a limitation of physical space in the kitchen area (and I'm not aware of the entire blocking), but the 1.2k booklight (3/4 front-right) shooting through the 4x4 opal is more likely the problem. Or, more specifically, the distance of the 4x4 opal to the subject. It's very difficult to get a proper booklight look without at least a 6x6 diff in the equation *depending on distance between subject and diffusion though. Since the coverage is mostly wider with inserts, the distance between the subject and the booklight "source" is paramount to the non-sourcey natural shadowless (ambient) look. Since the 4x4 opal is likely at least 6-10 feet away from the subject, you're likely to reduce the effect of the soft-look, since now your 4x4 (at the greater distance) reduces it to what could have been achieved with a medium softbox. Does that make sense?

So, if the diffusion is further away, the booklight needs to be compensated with a larger source area (i.e. 6x6 frame or larger), which would give you more wrap. There again, that could have been the limitation of not having more firepower (as you were saying).

Fascinating topic though. :) Lighting downstage is always a toughy.
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#9 Lindsay Mann

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 06:54 PM

Hey Lindsay, I took a look at one of your architecture interviews on your site. It looks great! I'm curious how you handled shooting quickly in an office with what I assume is mixed light: daylight, florescent, tungsten. Thanks.


Hey, not sure which video you're referring to, but it is always a challenge trying to match color temperatures in office buildings. I have been lighting with either daylight or cool white bulbs lately and hoping for the best. Color correction definitely helps even things out a bit. But I try to carry three sets of bulbs in the Kino Flo cases: 5600k, 3200k, and Cool Whites, which a lot of offices tend to have in the ceiling. I try to sit people by the windows, use the natural daylight (sometimes is burns me when the sun dips behind clouds - I sometimes tape some diff right to the window) and turn off practicals where I can.

That said, people and (video cameras) seem to be way more accepting of mixed color temperatures than they used to be.
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#10 EDDUS RAY

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 05:23 PM

So I have a shoot which involves a mother in a kitchen feeding her kids. A classic high key, bright white commercial look for a big name client.

I'm debating between two things right now: A) Ultrabounce/Foam core bounce vs. sending light through silks, and B ) Tungsten units (because it would give me more fire power) vs. HMI's

The location is this: Posted Image

I want there to be some hard sunlight coming through the window backlighting the subjects (foreground) and a large, very soft key/fill from the front that is large enough so they can move around a bit and stay in the light. I'm only worried that by bouncing, my light will go everywhere and it will look flat.

Do I need to use a booklight in order to achieve the shadowless look we're after? Or will bouncing work? Am I better off shooting something through two layers of 4x4 diff? I've got a couple 1.2 pars to work with, as well as some 2k's, 1k's, and kino's. I figured I'd use the kino's to fill at camera like in the overhead. Thoughts?

Posted Image


Hi Lindsay,

I think you achieved some really nice images here.

A couple of questions..

Were you using your DIVA to backlight the product or your subject?

Also- did you end up sandwiching the your foamcore to make a V for the booklight or did you bounce off a flat piece?

thanks!
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#11 Lindsay Mann

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 01:09 PM

Hi Lindsay,

I think you achieved some really nice images here.

A couple of questions..

Were you using your DIVA to backlight the product or your subject?

Also- did you end up sandwiching the your foamcore to make a V for the booklight or did you bounce off a flat piece?

thanks!


Sorry I didn't see this sooner.

Diva was backlight for the subject. We had a fresnel gelled (I think) 1/2 blue on the product, which in retrospect I don't think worked well.

The foamcore was just a flat 4'x8'. I use V-flats in photo studios sometimes, but they're a little unwieldy.
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#12 Pedro Ribeiro

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Posted 06 December 2014 - 06:35 PM

sorry to revive this post almost 3 year afters. 

I would love to see the photos that lindsay posted on his initial post as they are not online anymore.

 

I am gonna to a promo with kids in a kitchen and i am researching and found this.

 

if you could upload your original pictures again Lindsay, i would be really appreciated.

 

thanks


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Broadcast Solutions Inc

Metropolis Post

Glidecam

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