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Super 8 Color Negative to 16mm Positive


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#1 Glenn Brady

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 02:32 PM

I've been asked to make a 16mm positive for projection from a Super 8 color negative in my K-104 optical printer. What film stock is suitable for use in a 16mm camera for this purpose? Is the stock available in small quantities (400 to 800 feet) and, if it is, from whom?
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#2 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 04:10 PM

The logical stock would be the normal colour print film, 2383/3383 or the Fuji equivalent.

that film requires the ecp2 process. (Eastman Colour Print 2)

Perhaps the lab that will process it can provide you with the stock, as it traditionally comes as 2 rolls of 2000Ft in a can, and sometimes there is a more than one can minimum order. Only a few places bother with it, as 16mm prints are seldom made anymore. (the TV and educational markets have moved away from film prints.)
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#3 Glenn Brady

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 04:38 PM

Thanks!
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#4 James Compton

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 05:15 PM

I've been asked to make a 16mm positive for projection from a Super 8 color negative in my K-104 optical printer. What film stock is suitable for use in a 16mm camera for this purpose? Is the stock available in small quantities (400 to 800 feet) and, if it is, from whom?


KODAK VISION Color Print Film / 3383 / VCP452 / 16 mm x 3000 ft roll / On Core / 2R-3000
Catalog number 1465988 $190.21 each.

KODAK 1.800.621.3456

Take the 3000ft roll to your local lab tell them what you are doing and ask them to cut 7 400ft and 1 200ft roll for you.
Let them know you will return with the exposed rolls for processing.

----OR----

You could shoot on 400ft rolls of KODAK 7285 100 ASA EKTACHROME .

KODAK EKTACHROME 100D Color Reversal Film / 7285 / SP457 / 16 mm x 400 ft roll / On Core / Winding B / 1R-2994
Catalog number-1263722 $141.92 each.
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#5 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 05:29 PM

----OR----

You could shoot on 400ft rolls of KODAK 7285 100 ASA EKTACHROME .

KODAK EKTACHROME 100D Color Reversal Film / 7285 $141.92 each.



The Ektachrome would work if you were starting in 16mm, if you already have your project on Super8 Negative, the ektachome would give you they nagative image if used to do the Blow up.

BTW, As far as I know the ECP is Many times slower than any normal camera stock.
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#6 James Compton

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 08:00 PM

The Ektachrome would work if you were starting in 16mm, if you already have your project on Super8 Negative, the ektachome would give you they nagative image if used to do the Blow up.

BTW, As far as I know the ECP is Many times slower than any normal camera stock.


Charles, I think you misunderstood his original question and my reply. He wants to use the 16mm camera in a JK 104 optical recording setup. Ihat is why I showed the KODAK catalog number for print film. He wants to make a print from Super 8 Color negative. There is only one color print film available with 16mm perforations on both sides - KODAK VISION 3383.

Edited by James Compton, 29 February 2012 - 08:01 PM.

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#7 Jock Blakley

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 11:43 PM

I didn't even know they made 3383 in 2R - what application would that have that specifically warranted 2R?
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#8 James Compton

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 01:34 AM

I didn't even know they made 3383 in 2R - what application would that have that specifically warranted 2R?


2R means 2 perforations. 1 on each side of the image.

1R means single perforation.

Regular 8mm 2R, Super 8mm 1R, Regular 16mm 2R, Super 16mm 1R.
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#9 Mark Dunn

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 04:28 AM

Shame you can't shoot on that at 6c a foot.
Hmm.
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#10 Jock Blakley

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 08:01 AM

2R means 2 perforations. 1 on each side of the image.

1R means single perforation.

Regular 8mm 2R, Super 8mm 1R, Regular 16mm 2R, Super 16mm 1R.

Um... I do know that, actually. My question again, but more clearly - why do they make Kodak VISION Colour Print Film 3383 in two-row-perf 16mm (other than as a special-order) when 99% of 16mm projectors are 1R because the other perf area is usually used for soundtrack?

Mark: I have heard of people shooting 3383 and some colour intermediate films with two stacked 85 filters, but I've never actually seen the footage. You can however get quite interesting, and sometimes even quite usable, results using EASTMAN Panchromatic Sound Recording Film 3373 and EASTMAN High-Contrast Panchromatic Intermediate Film SO-331 in-camera. The latter is 65/35mm only though - I wonder if EASTMAN High-Contrast Panchromatic Film 3369 could stand in for it.
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#11 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 08:36 AM

Yes, 2R colour print does sound funny. Silent, colour films.
I note that the Kodak catalogue also lists 3383 in standard 8. I wonder if there is any lab anywhere making colour prints in standard 8mm?
odd

Not that the original poster needs 2R for their JK purpose. 1R is more appropriate, and easier to get.
Of course, the Ektachrome is of no relevance to the question of enlarging colour neg super 8 to 16mm print.
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#12 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 05:52 PM

Charles, I think you misunderstood his original question and my reply. He wants to use the 16mm camera in a JK 104 optical recording setup. Ihat is why I showed the KODAK catalog number for print film. He wants to make a print from Super 8 Color negative.


Yes, that is what I thought, so he needs a Print film not a REVERSAL film.

I susposed the Double perf 16mm might be more convenient for a few applications. I figured that you were quoting that based on the availability as one 3000 ft roll rather than the usual 2X 2000 ft rolls for the regular single perf Film.

Only a few years ago, release prints in regular and super 8 were very common. You probaly could do a hevey mod to a 16mm contact printer to use the supper8 Print stock to make a super8 p[rint from a super 8 negative, I have seen this alluded to in one web site from europe.
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#13 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 05:53 PM

Shame you can't shoot on that at 6c a foot.
Hmm.



Well, it is proably in the ASA 3 to 6 range like 7302, as well as being balanced for a DDB lamp running at 90 Volts (nice and red) as found on a movie printer.
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#14 John Woods

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 01:08 AM

If the lab you are working with can't help you, Niagara Custom Lab is friendly towards selling various lab stocks on daylight spools. LIFT in Toronto sells print stock in small quantities for JK printing: http://lift.ca/equip...7399-print-film
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#15 Glenn Brady

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 08:28 AM

Thanks everyone for your advice and recommendations.

I've not used 3383 before and realize I'll have to run tests. Is there a 'starting point' for the filtration that'll be required in printing? The pertinent Kodak technical data sheet doesn't offer specifics insofar as it's designed for commercial labs with sensitometers and other sophisticated equipment to which I've no access.
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#16 Richard Tuohy

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 08:32 PM

Hi Glen,
chosing a filter pack and a light is going to be a tedious process.
I would start with nothing (except UV) given the 3383 is expecting colour neg as seen through tungsten coloured light.
But then, you can expect that you will need some filter combination balance the light (for the particular light voltage setting) from the JK.
A lot of testing of short pieces. Would be best if you could do your own processing. Unless you can find a sympathetic laboratory to process your little tests cheaply.
good luck and let us know what filter pack you end up with.
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#17 John Woods

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 10:36 PM

In my experience labs will do small tests for free as they will expect you to return with more work (the previously mentioned NCL did not charge me for my tests with some old VNF I was given). You should be able to work out a deal with a lab to sell you print stock put onto daylight spools and do the processing. It will have to be a lab that offers printing as the chemistry for prints is different from the negative process.
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#18 Glenn Brady

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 09:30 AM

Once again, thanks for the guidance everyone. John, following your recommendation, we've contacted Niagara Custom Lab and will be working with them. I'll report results here (if they're worth reporting).
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#19 Anthony Schilling

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 04:48 PM

Will labs that do 16mm prints do a blow up of S8 neg? Does it add more grain on a blowup? I'd like to try if possible because it doesn't sound like 16mm prints will be around for much longer, and I'd shoot more S8 neg without having a $300 transfer minimum.


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#20 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 07:35 PM

Will labs that do 16mm prints do a blow up of S8 neg? Does it add more grain on a blowup?


It would not add any more grain than the super 8 neg already hs, but of course that would be more than you would get than if you shot 16mm directly.

Printing up would be an optical process, and likely would require the print to be made frame by frame.
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