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Shooting on Super 8 with sound?


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#1 John Mackey

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 04:27 PM

I was recently looking into shooting my next short film on Super 8, but I'd like to have some dialogue. I was hoping I could record sound on a digital recorder and then sync it in Final Cut Pro after I get the film processed and transferred. Any possibility of doing this? And what sorts of lenses do they make for super 8 cameras?

Edited by John Mackey, 01 April 2012 - 04:27 PM.

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#2 Matt Stevens

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 05:36 PM

I was recently looking into shooting my next short film on Super 8, but I'd like to have some dialogue. I was hoping I could record sound on a digital recorder and then sync it in Final Cut Pro after I get the film processed and transferred. Any possibility of doing this? And what sorts of lenses do they make for super 8 cameras?

8mm cameras are LOUD, so you will have the deal with that. They also do not sync up exact, so you will end up with rubber lips that have to be corrected here and there. Some cameras will stay on point for 30 seconds. Some for not even 3 seconds.

Looping dialogue is always possible if there isn't too much of it.

I have always sought ways to do my super8 stuff without any dialogue.

www.vimeo.com/super8shooter/videos

Edited by Matt Stevens, 01 April 2012 - 05:40 PM.

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#3 Matt Stevens

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 05:43 PM

This forum really needs to allow us to edit our posts past a few seconds. <_<

A link that works...

vimeo.com/super8shooter
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#4 Daniel Klockenkemper

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 11:11 PM

John,

The intersection between the sets of Super 8 cameras with interchangeable lenses and cameras quiet enough to record dialogue is to my knowledge null. Beaulieu cameras have a c-mount for interchangeable lens use, with the widest available a 3.5mm. Almost all other cameras have non-interchangeable zoom lenses.

If you're looking to record sound, your best bet is to find a Braun Nizo camera from the 4-digit series (e.g., 1040, 2056, 4080). These cameras are belt driven, which greatly reduces the noise of the camera. I have a Nizo 6080 model, and it's inaudible outdoors or indoors when the room is not quiet. (It is audible in very quiet rooms, but what camera isn't? Throw a blanket over the camera.) While I haven't performed any real tests - like Matt, I like to forgo dialogue when I can - they supposedly remain in sync for over a minute. (A crystal sync modification is possible, but very uncommon.) If you look for one of these cameras, be sure to get one that is in confirmed good working order. The belts which make them so quiet are also their Achilles' heel, and if the camera has been sitting for a long time the belt might be dried out and could break when you try to run it.

Another option would be to use a noisy camera and record the location dialogue as a reference track, then rerecord it properly and add the spoken parts during editing. It's a bit more labor intensive, but saves you the trouble of hunting down a special super 8 camera.
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#5 Nicholas Kovats

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 10:03 AM

John,

I assume you are going to edit your transferred footage with a digital NLE. Use the belt driven Nizo 6080/6056. You may or not use a cheap clap board to mark the start frames visually (clap board scene description) and audibly (clap board sound).

However synchronization of visual and separate audio recording is not really an issue nowadays and is actually quite easy with plural eyes software which matches up the audio waves. It works and it is used professionally.

http://www.singulars...pluraleyes.html

That being said you could construct a barney for the Nizo. Run some tests. Do you have access to an Aaton 16mm camera which is an excellent reference for a sound sync camera? Run an audio test. In fact I literally had to put my ear next to the Aaton Super 16mm cam I was testing last evening to make sure it was running at 24 fps.

You may need to change the belt on the Nizo due to age. What are the environmental acoustic requirements for your piece? Large empty rooms or chatty loud cafes?

There are no real technical limitations nowadays. Just tap into the will to execute.

Cheers!

Nicholas
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#6 James Begert

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Posted 03 April 2012 - 02:00 PM

Why not record to an external portable digital recorder?
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#7 Will Montgomery

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 01:40 PM

I use a Zoom H4n but it depends on your setup. One easy solution is to us a camcorder to record sound as most modern ones have great audio sections and some even have mic-ins if you need close mic. That way syncing with film is even easier as you have constant video for syncing. Also you can separate the audio recording/mics physically from the camera which will help with the sewing machine noise coming from the Super 8 camera.

Most people are using 2-part systems now with DSLRs so it's actually becoming more common.

Here's a video I shot with two Canon 5Ds, a Sony home camcorder, 16mm Canon Scoopic and audio from a Zoom H4n.


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#8 Vincent Sweeney

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 01:56 PM

Don't bother with homemade junk that doesn't work, call these guys up and have a real barney made.
http://www.customuph....com/index.html
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#9 DimitriGacser

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Posted 06 April 2012 - 11:32 AM

All I can say is: try to shoot outdoors as much as possible and you will 'not' hear the sound of your camera.
Nizo camera's are quiet but still you need a boom to record your dialogue.
My 24 minute movie Perception was recorded with a lot of dialogues and with the Nizo 4056 I could easily get 90 secs perfectly sync with the film.
Only in your digital editing program you need to speed up or slow down your film a few procent.

link to audio-sync film Perception :

Goodluck!
Dimitri
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#10 Tobias

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 11:22 AM

If you don´t want to clap every scene you could use a small device that produces parallel to your recording a 1000 Hz beep for every frame on your digital recorder. The flash contact of the camera is needed and the xlr(in my case) contact of the recorder(has to provide 48 Volt). It works good.
You should´t use the first and the last few frames of the Super 8 cartridge to have an accurate beginning.
Disadvantage: the camera is connected to the recorder.

Perhaps someone in the US will produce such an item too.
For illustration: (german)
http://www.testberic...swf/232842.html
Another one:
http://www.super8syn...oting_Film.html
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#11 Chris Burke

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Posted 15 April 2012 - 12:37 PM

give these folks a try http://www.webtfg.com/sync1.htm they go by the name The Film Group


Also contact Phil Vigeant at Pro8mm. He has been dealing with Super 8 Sound for quite a while.


The gist of it is, that it can be done, rather easily with the right equipment.
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#12 Matt Stevens

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 08:07 AM

Pro8 is infinitely expensive. Just be aware of that. No doubt they have the expertise when it comes to super8. I just wish their prices were not so loony.

I'm curious about the new twist to their scanner; Digital stabilization. Not noise reduction. But stabilizing the image by comparing frames to reduce jitter/bob/weave. That is the one aspect of super8 that kinda sucks. Even with a top end tripod, your image can be unstable.
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