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Low budget 35mm Cameras with Registration pins?


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#1 Trevor McClung

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 02:08 PM

Which cameras besides the Mitchell and Arris have Registration pins?
Or which ones don't besides Konvas?

The whole story is I'm trying to figure out the best low budget registration pin camera for 2perf conversion.

Also can a Konvas be modified to have Reg pins?
Thanks
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#2 Rafael Pankratau

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 02:14 PM

Hi, Trevor.

You may consider my OstCam mod of Konvas-2M listed on eBay currently. It is the best 35mm camera you can buy in range below $2000, I think. Price negotiation is possible.
http://cgi.ebay.com/...em=140739029063

Thanks
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#3 Simon Wyss

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 02:51 PM

Precisest movement still is Bell & Howell’s shuttle gate. Doubled by the Wall

Then comes the Newman-Sinclair clapper gate.

Then you have the Mitchell family with its descendants down to the youngest Arricam, Vinten-Newall-Moviecam-Ultracam-Leonetti-Cinema Products-Arritechno-Photosonics-Cunningham-Simplex Centfox.

Let’s not forget the Debrie Grande Vitesse with up to 240 f. p. s. under moving register pins.

Little Debrie Sept has moving register pins, too. Unfortunately in a soft alloy, so in most cases worn out

Debrie Parvo in aluminum housing from 1921 on, also Askania Z (a copy of the former), the Italian OG 300, and the Czech and Soviet studio cameras
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#4 Rafael Pankratau

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 03:23 PM

Then you have the Mitchell family

I have BNC modified to accept Soviet lenses in OCT-19 mount :-)
http://rafcamera.com...mm-movie-camera
Mirror shutter installed, so I'm not sure that it is suitable for your needs now though.
I wanted $2950 for it, but now I'm ready to sell it for $1000 + shipping.
Thanks

Edited by Rafael Pankratau, 21 April 2012 - 03:24 PM.

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#5 Trevor McClung

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 03:38 PM

Hi Rafael.
I purchased my first Konvas 2m from you about 8 years ago. Also a video assist you made. You do fine, fine work and you are a pleasure to do business with. I'm glad to see you're here.
And Simon, you sure do know your stuff, thanks.
Raf, I'll look at your cams, I look at your website a lot. I'm on a 16mm project now but as soon as I can I'll need you. I'm doing budget for part 2 of 3 part series. Part two is 35 2perf camera with Reg pins.
Can I do this conversion myself in my machine shop?
Is it better to buy it all ready converted?
Will a local machinist be qualified to convert?
Is it best to send a camera to a specialized 2 perf conversion shop?
This is what I'll have to find out.
Thanks guys.
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#6 Rafael Pankratau

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 04:19 PM

2-perf conversion requires change of mechanical parts to change movement pattern of the pull-down claw. I think that it is better to ask experienced techs to do this. If I remember correctly, Bruce at Aranda Film (Australia) did some conversions like this, but shipping to and from Australia will be expensive. May be you'll find other workshop closer to you, somewhere in US. You may try to ask Slow Motion, Inc.
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#7 Tom Jensen

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 06:53 PM

BL's are so cheap to rent or buy right now. Why use anything but.?
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#8 Trevor McClung

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 09:05 PM

Thanks Tom. BLs I like it. I've never even heard an Arri. Never held one either. I would love to posses one. What price should they be at? What's high, what's low?
Thanks Raf, I checked with Slowmotion. I remember them from back in the day. They've come a long way.
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#9 douglas barnett

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:30 PM

Technovision, George Lucas shot his second THX film, and Tucker, 1988. such a box exist.

I would mask the normal 35mm frame at centerline, an original B&H 2709 has built in mat box ahead of the gate, and rewind for a second inverted pass so you don't waiste half your stock. The 2709 also has film notch-er to mark the loaders matching starting frame, and a automatic cross desolve feature built in.

I owned a machine shop for eight years and did crazy things like converting from 6 perf pull down to 8 perf, bandsawing up Mitchells, B&H's and theater projectors for $Hollywood and building special film gates. Not worth it for a single film.

I have a 35mm 24-30fps Kinescope camera with two registration pins and a 300degree shutter open time. You could start there:)
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#10 Trevor McClung

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 05:23 PM

Douglas, THANK YOU.
A double pass... That's bloody brilliant man. That opens up so many low budget avenues an my wheels are spinning.
A double flippin pass.
With a little engineering, trial and error, patients and machining a 4 perf cam could be a 2 perf cam. I'm thinking matt box, possible dual gates with upper 2 perf mask and lower 2 perf mask? Would replacing the gate between shoots be impractical as well as bad for the FFD?
I'll work it out but that's the TICKET!
Thanks a lot genius.
You saved me thousands of dollars.
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#11 David J Paradise

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 08:39 AM

Which cameras besides the Mitchell and Arris have Registration pins?
Or which ones don't besides Konvas?

The whole story is I'm trying to figure out the best low budget registration pin camera for 2perf conversion.

Also can a Konvas be modified to have Reg pins?
Thanks

I'm curious about your emphasis on having reg pins.
In my view, apart from the Arri IIc, the best low budget camera for 2-perf is the Cameflex CM3.

Yes, the ratchet mechanism is noisy but it's a great camera with many advantages; variable shutter, range of spares and extras including 100'-200'-400' mags, practicable conversion for 2-perf and PL hard-front, very easy to set-up and operate.

With the 100 foot mag it is amazingly compact; see photos of my 2-perf CM3.
I think Haskell Wexler used one on American Graffiti?
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#12 David J Paradise

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 08:59 AM

[img][IMG]http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6889/cm3compact3.jpg[/IMG] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/img]

Hopefully the image will appear here. :rolleyes:
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#13 David J Paradise

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 12:03 PM

[img][IMG]http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6889/cm3compact3.jpg[/IMG] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/img]

Hopefully the image will appear here. :rolleyes:


Or not as it turns out.
Can someone offer advice on uploading images please?
A search suggested ImageShack which I tried with the Insert Image option above.
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#14 Mark Dunn

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 01:30 PM

Or not as it turns out.
Can someone offer advice on uploading images please?
A search suggested ImageShack which I tried with the Insert Image option above.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/99/cm3compact3.jpg
or <a href:
<a href="http://imageshack.us...mpact3.jpg"</a>
<a href="http://s5.photobucke...t=P3281371.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i5.photobucke...n/P3281371.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Edited by Mark Dunn, 24 May 2012 - 01:35 PM.

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#15 Mark Dunn

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 01:38 PM

How about img src
<img src="http://imageshack.us...compact3.jpg"/>

Edited by Mark Dunn, 24 May 2012 - 01:39 PM.

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#16 Mark Dunn

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 01:41 PM

"http://imageshack.us...m3compact3.jpg"
http://imageshack.us...cm3compact3.jpg
I'll stop now. sorry.

Edited by Mark Dunn, 24 May 2012 - 01:41 PM.

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#17 David J Paradise

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 04:49 AM

"http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/99/cm3compact3.jpg"
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/99/cm3compact3.jpg
I'll stop now. sorry.


Thanks Mark. It seems the external link is working.
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#18 Michael Lehnert

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 05:38 AM

I agree with David that the best choice would be to go for an Éclair Cameflex CM3 or an Arriflex 35 IIC. Especially the Cameflex is much underrated - Costa-Gavras brought his own to IDHEC, and continued using it even when he no longer would have had to.

Compared to a few years ago, you can fetch a IIC one Ebay for around €1500. With patience, you can snap one up for less: Just for the fun of it, we recently obtained one for €500 in pristine working condition :blink: B) . Even the projectionists at ARRI wouldn't believe that this was a IIC with a World War II lens on it when they projected the test reel in-house.

And renting an Arriflex 35 BL with a good set of fitting lenses strikes me as a much more rational, i.e. economic or reasonable approach than start tinkering around with old Debries in one's machine shop. Unless of course that's supposed to be part of the path to cinematograpic glory ;) .
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#19 Will Montgomery

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 04:10 PM

I thought the Ari 35-III was the first pin-registered Arri camera or do I have my terminology wrong? The III has that extra pin above the gate that holds the film where the IIC does not...just know this from loading both.
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#20 Michael Lehnert

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 06:11 PM

No, Will, your memory is not betraying you, the 35 III was the first Arriflex with registration pin movement.

For my part, I was continuing to David's post #11 on low budget cams generally and my recent experience of what you get for what bucks.

/-Michael
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