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Super 16 Aaton XTR Prod


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#1 TW Foley

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 06:28 PM

I am shooting a short using the Aaton XTRprod and the camera has been modified for Super16 by the rental house. I am shooting on Double X 7222, mostly night exteriors/night interiors. It says in the camera manual that it is best to avoid pushing the film and push processing it. However, I don't have a budget for a professional light kit, so I am using available light plus CFLs on top of those. Should I push the film to 400 or should I keep it at 200 and try to light accordingly?
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#2 Will Montgomery

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Posted 27 April 2012 - 08:14 PM

I love 7222 for its graininess and feel. It has a great look. The only time I pushed Double X I found the already heavy grain to be almost too much.

Since the color of the light isn't really as important with B&W, consider picking up work lights from Home Depot. Those yellow work lights are 500 to 1000 watts each and you get two on a stand for around $60. Some white sheets can diffuse it if needed (careful, not too close to those lights or fire time.) You can really get tons of lights cheap this way and you'll own them for any future projects, film or video.

Grab some of those lights and shoot a 100' test normal and 100' pushed, you might be pleasantly surprised at normal processing.
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#3 Dirk DeJonghe

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 02:15 AM

If you are not going to print your negative to B&W stock, I would advise to shoot on 500T color negative (Kodak or Fuji). You will have real 500 speed instead of approx. 125-160 for 7222. Latitude on the color negative stock is much larger, much finer grain and easier to get processed properly. On 7222 you will get a halo effect on the headlights of cars for example (white ring), color negative will not because of better anti-halation rem-jet backing. Color negative will run quieter and more smoothly too.

It would be very helpful to tell us your workflow so you can get more advice. Underexposed B&W night shots are not the most pretty, you must always print 'down' a night shot to get nice blacks and detail.
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#4 Chris Burke

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 07:33 AM

Testing is the best way for you to find out what you need to do. If you push, you are looking at a higher cost for processing. It may be cheaper to buy faster film to begin with. Color neg is one way to go with 500T, also Orwo has a 400 speed black and white in 16mm. For what it is worth( I don't know how much film you need), Fuji Eterna stock is cheaper than 7222 per foot. .17 cents per as apposed to .19 per foot.
Having said all that, I like to buy American these days. 7230 looks great in black and white and Kodak will give you a great price for it. As stated before, the added latitude (like 8 or so stops) and sharpness of color negative stock may make your life a lot easier. We, I say all this in not knowing what you scenes will look like. IF they are smaller tighter shots, not too wide, you could get away with 7222 and who can blame you for wanting to shoot real black and white. You should test 7266 as well. Check out Rob Houllahan's test on Orwo, links are somewhere on this site.
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#5 TW Foley

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 05:38 PM

Testing is the best way for you to find out what you need to do. If you push, you are looking at a higher cost for processing. It may be cheaper to buy faster film to begin with. Color neg is one way to go with 500T, also Orwo has a 400 speed black and white in 16mm. For what it is worth( I don't know how much film you need), Fuji Eterna stock is cheaper than 7222 per foot. .17 cents per as apposed to .19 per foot.
Having said all that, I like to buy American these days. 7230 looks great in black and white and Kodak will give you a great price for it. As stated before, the added latitude (like 8 or so stops) and sharpness of color negative stock may make your life a lot easier. We, I say all this in not knowing what you scenes will look like. IF they are smaller tighter shots, not too wide, you could get away with 7222 and who can blame you for wanting to shoot real black and white. You should test 7266 as well. Check out Rob Houllahan's test on Orwo, links are somewhere on this site.


Unfortunately, I cannot afford to shoot a test because the camera is a rental. I don't mind grain, and 7222 is a lot less money than 7230. I do have some wide shots. I purchased 7222 and received it this past Monday because I was supposed to shoot this week, but the camera I rented was dysfunctional, so I had to go to a different rental house and won't be shooting til June. Hopefully I can return the film and then I am going to look into Orwo N74 plus. I saw Rob Houllahan's test and I really liked the look. Orwo seems to be a good option.
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#6 Dirk DeJonghe

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Posted 28 April 2012 - 10:38 PM

Before shooting any kind of B&W negative in a modern camera, I would suggest at the very least to do a steady test and an exposure test. You may also want to check that your camera has NO shiny chrome film pressure plate but a black one because B&W negative has no carbon black backing to stop light from bouncing back into the emulsion from the rear.
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#7 Chris Burke

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 07:34 AM

Sorry for your set backs. Did both the rental house and the lab you are using say "no" to free testing? Any vendor I have dealt with always allowed me to test film at the rental house. Labs have processed for free. You really only have to shoot 400 feet for testing. One hundred process regular, one hundred feet of a push process for two different stocks. Anyway, 7222 is a great looking stock and I love the grain as well. I am shooting a short this summer on it. I am curious about the 400 iso Orwo and how much more grain it has than the Kodak '22.
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#8 TW Foley

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 06:10 PM

Does anyone know if Orwo N74 plus 16mm has black backing? and if the Aaton XTRprod has a black pressure plate? I'm going with Orwo stock and going to rate it at 800 and push process.
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#9 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 06:45 PM

Does anyone know if Orwo N74 plus 16mm has black backing?



It has a grey base just like any other B&W camera stock. The black backing removal step is not part of "Normal" B&W processing. Closest I have seen is one Still film (EFKE) which has a dye layer on the back which becomes colorless in the developer.
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#10 Christian Wilfong

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Posted 06 June 2012 - 11:02 AM

I am shooting a short using the Aaton XTRprod and the camera has been modified for Super16 by the rental house. I am shooting on Double X 7222, mostly night exteriors/night interiors. It says in the camera manual that it is best to avoid pushing the film and push processing it. However, I don't have a budget for a professional light kit, so I am using available light plus CFLs on top of those. Should I push the film to 400 or should I keep it at 200 and try to light accordingly?


This is kind of an old post so I'm not sure how helpful this is. I would not try pushing the stock unless you like big grain. I shot the film below on Double X 7222 last year and it was exposed properly in well lit daylight and is still extremely grainy. I was going for that gritty early 90's black and white film feel so it worked for me, but if you want something with finer grain you have to shoot color and desaturate. At least that's the conclusion I came to after doing some research on black and white photography in today's age. Hope this helped.


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Broadcast Solutions Inc

Rig Wheels Passport

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Tai Audio

FJS International, LLC

Visual Products

rebotnix Technologies

Technodolly

Willys Widgets

Ritter Battery

Metropolis Post

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Glidecam

Wooden Camera

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