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Someone up there doesn't like me


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#1 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 12:58 PM

Start of take:

dull_sml.jpg


Nineteen seconds later:

sun_sml.jpg


"Fly in a silk," I hear you cry.

"Ha," replies budgetary reality.

You will notice that this is take seven.
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#2 Stephen Williams

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 03:03 PM

Start of take:

dull_sml.jpg


Nineteen seconds later:

sun_sml.jpg


"Fly in a silk," I hear you cry.

"Ha," replies budgetary reality.

You will notice that this is take seven.


Zurich is far more reliable for overcast weather!
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#3 John Holland

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 04:28 PM

If you had shot it backlit then apart from not having that flat horrible look you wouldnt noticed the change of light as much !
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#4 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 25 May 2012 - 04:55 PM

Not really an option; the view looking away from the building was a horrible shopping arcade, and when the overcast was there it wasn't really lit from any particular direction.

I think the flat horrible look makes it look like a BBC TV drama, which is clearly in demand! People seem to grade that sort of thing all cold and dark and murky, which is probably what I'll do.

In an ideal world I'd have liked a sort of milky watery sunlight, but how often do you get that.
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#5 Freya Black

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 05:22 AM

I think the flat horrible look makes it look like a BBC TV drama, which is clearly in demand! People seem to grade that sort of thing all cold and dark and murky, which is probably what I'll do.


Are you thinking of spooks, which did tend to be a bit cold and dark but which was at least shot on Super16 and seemed to have a a fair bit of effort put into it, or more a TV drama actually made by the BBC? Personally I wouldn't want to be hard on spooks because as stuff on UK TV goes it feels a lot like they are really making an effort. It had a lot of good things going on for it.

I do find that there does seem to be a gradual improvement in the quality of cinematography on UK TV drama but it's a minor shift so far and it probably isn't visible on anything actually made by the BBC.

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#6 Freya Black

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 05:36 AM

"Fly in a silk," I hear you cry.

"Ha," replies budgetary reality.

You will notice that this is take seven.


I sympathise as the footage with the slate really does look a lot better.
As to silks, is there something that could be used instead?
Like maybe fly in a shower curtain or a sheet, or a roll of diffusion on sticks or something?

Remember also that the poor quality of many very expensive productions in the UK works in your favour anyway.
From what I just saw on a huge production here in London, what passes for good here is just having truck after truck of expensive equipment on hand. True no problem if you need to fly in a silk but...

Was really eye opening, like a lot of what I'm seeing in London lately.

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#7 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 11:13 AM

One of my favorite diffusers on large frames is 1/2 Soft Frost, which is like an Opal or light shower curtain material -- you only lose a 1/2-stop under it so the background does not get much hotter in comparison, and you keep the directionality of the light a bit.

We've all been faced with the problem of the sun going in and out of clouds, and sometimes there is no time to fly silks in and out to make it all match. It is painful -- sometimes all you can do is keep shooting under both types of light and when it is all through, decide which shots you want to reshoot so that you have some that match for editing.
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#8 Phil Rhodes

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 11:59 AM

The track was about 40 feet; it'd have had to be a pretty large large frame. Even medium-sized shows might have struggled. It could, maybe, have been walked along by a couple of grips, if we'd actually had a large frame of half frost and a couple of grips.

Ultimately your suggestion is exactly what we did, but it is terribly under-shot as a result and the reason I'm whining about it here is that it's catharsis to the miserable task I'm faced when I tab back into Premiere and try to cut the damn thing.
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#9 Freya Black

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 12:03 PM

One of my favorite diffusers on large frames is 1/2 Soft Frost, which is like an Opal or light shower curtain material -- you only lose a 1/2-stop under it so the background does not get much hotter in comparison, and you keep the directionality of the light a bit.

We've all been faced with the problem of the sun going in and out of clouds, and sometimes there is no time to fly silks in and out to make it all match. It is painful -- sometimes all you can do is keep shooting under both types of light and when it is all through, decide which shots you want to reshoot so that you have some that match for editing.


I've actually got some soft frost or opal or something, can't remember what now. Not sure how much of it tho but might be up for buying more.

I reckon a portable frame could be made out of pvc pipe, a bit like this concept:

http://www.wikihow.c...le-Green-Screen

Yes, maybe not as good as what might come off an Arri truck but also a lot less nonsense involved.

I think this would be very much worth doing because if you are careful, you can re-use the gel again and again, as it's not going to get damaged by hot lights I figure. The portability might be better than the real deal. You might need multiple people to make it work mind but I would be up for helping if you could help me in return. You could even build corner supports and build something like a gazebo without sides.

Basically if this would allow you to get great exterior shots, then it seems it could be a key item on a low budget shoot because you are only paying for the gel and the plastic. No electricity and no light hire.

I note that people often say they have no budget at all but then suddenly when it's something they want, they have the money to ship you out to Oxford or whatever. If it's a small cost, like this could be made for, then I think it's worth asking if they can't push for a few extra pounds. There is such a thing as false economy.

I know that budgets are tight but sometimes, just having a few key things can make a big difference.

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#10 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 12:14 PM

Keep in mind that a lot of diffusion gel material rattles like hell in a breeze (Opal in particular), which is why the softer materials are used.
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#11 Freya Black

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 12:14 PM

The track was about 40 feet; it'd have had to be a pretty large large frame. Even medium-sized shows might have struggled. It could, maybe, have been walked along by a couple of grips, if we'd actually had a large frame of half frost and a couple of grips.

Ultimately your suggestion is exactly what we did, but it is terribly under-shot as a result and the reason I'm whining about it here is that it's catharsis to the miserable task I'm faced when I tab back into Premiere and try to cut the damn thing.


Nasty shadow on your actress in that take BTW, but I'm guessing you selected that take to show off the problem to the max.

Ah! Moving shot.
Like I say, I could have helped with the grip thing. Might introduce new problems tho, I just watched a couple of grips crabbing along with what looked like a giant scrim on a shoot out here and was very taken with how much noise they were making, doing so. Steadicam shoot too, but maybe they could bury the extra noise under sound effects given the nature of it. Wasn't really impressed tho.

Reckon you could do it with a 4x4 frame and still think it could be made from PVC pipe. You probably would need 2 grips but the extra lightweightedness of the PVC might mean you could get away with one. Assuming you could get lucky with the wind! ;)

...and wind is never so handy near tall buildings.

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#12 Freya Black

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 12:19 PM

Keep in mind that a lot of diffusion gel material rattles like hell in a breeze (Opal in particular), which is why the softer materials are used.


So the soft frost is less brittle and so less noisy?
No idea what I have already but like I say I might be up for bankrolling and helping grip it, in exchange for same in return.

#DealWithTheDevil

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#13 Matt Day

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 02:30 PM

I once made up a 4x4 from PVC pipe for a low budget affair, the diffusion was similar to half frost i think, clipped along the edges of the pipes whenever we needed to fly it (a bit of tape to seal the edges in between also helps if it's rattling).

Worked pretty well until a freak gust of wind interrupted a blue sky day, lifted the frame right up and snapped one of the pipes.

If you ask me, get your hands on some thin lightweight aluminium or copper tubes (cheap plumbing pipes) and it'll make your frame a little more sturdy in exchange for a bit more weight.

Just my two cents.
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#14 Freya Black

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 03:39 PM

Worked pretty well until a freak gust of wind interrupted a blue sky day, lifted the frame right up and snapped one of the pipes.

If you ask me, get your hands on some thin lightweight aluminium or copper tubes (cheap plumbing pipes) and it'll make your frame a little more sturdy in exchange for a bit more weight.

Just my two cents.


Thanks Matt. Great that you can tell us about your experiences with it! :)
Can you tell me more?

I think copper wouldn't be as strong as pvc. Aluminium might be stronger?

Sounds a bit like trying to keep your umbrella from breaking its spokes!
Do you think the snapping pvc pipe might be dangerous?
Because if it's not then it seems like it could still be an option maybe??
Depending on how expensive the pvc is.

Dunno I'm interested in the pvc frame idea...

...but I wouldn't want anyone to get hurt.

love

Freya

Edited by Freya Black, 27 May 2012 - 03:40 PM.

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#15 Matt Day

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Posted 27 May 2012 - 04:48 PM

I think copper wouldn't be as strong as pvc. Aluminium might be stronger?


Yeah thinking about it the aluminium will be the strongest but PVC will be stronger than copper and cheaper than both. So go for PVC. Oh it's mega cheap too, i found meter length pipes for less than $5 a piece (perhaps around £2-£3) around local hardware stores.

Do you think the snapping pvc pipe might be dangerous?


Nah, when PVC snaps you'll get a little dust and perhaps a couple of sharp edges but nothing that could hurt anyone.

I was sure i had some pictures but i can't seem to find them :(

But be sure to let me know if you decide to build one though, I'm more than happy to give advice etc :)

Edited by Matt Day, 27 May 2012 - 04:52 PM.

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#16 Matt Day

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Posted 28 May 2012 - 11:44 AM

I should just point out that PVC usually doesn't snap, it just bends.. The only reason our PVC frame snapped in the wind was probably because it was old (rescued from scrap) and brittle, buying from new, the frame would probably just flex a little in strong winds, like carrying a giant umbrella.

Sorry for double post.
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