Jump to content


Photo

Is this a lighting or post thing?


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 Graeme McMahon

Graeme McMahon
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 25 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 15 June 2012 - 11:48 PM

Hello,

I have been testing for a while how to achieve this look in camera. I refer to the sheen (though it isn't sweat), in the forehead. It's like the skin tone is reflecting a light source. [attachment=7456:inglourious_basterds_profilelarge.jpg]

I have played with overlapping soft and hard lights, burning a light source so the sources spill is lighting the skin. I just don't seem to nail it. Is this a post thing?

Thanks,

[attachment=7457:inglourious_basterds_image16.jpg]
  • 0

#2 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 19765 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 16 June 2012 - 12:50 AM

Hello,

I have been testing for a while how to achieve this look in camera. I refer to the sheen (though it isn't sweat), in the forehead. It's like the skin tone is reflecting a light source. [attachment=7456:inglourious_basterds_profilelarge.jpg]

I have played with overlapping soft and hard lights, burning a light source so the sources spill is lighting the skin. I just don't seem to nail it. Is this a post thing?

Thanks,

[attachment=7457:inglourious_basterds_image16.jpg]


The skin is reflecting a soft light, that's all -- you can see the lights in his eyes. But the skin has to have enough reflectance in it, sometimes some baby oil can help if you want a lot of shine.
  • 0

#3 Rex Orwell

Rex Orwell
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 91 posts
  • Student

Posted 16 June 2012 - 01:31 AM

Exactly what I was gonna suggest. Looks to me like some sort of moisturiser that's been almost completely soaked into the skin, but then god knows what sort of make-up products have been used.

When you first apply moisturiser it can be shiny, but after a while it provides for a slight sheen that looks just like this.

Edited by Rex Orwell, 16 June 2012 - 01:35 AM.

  • 0

#4 Graeme McMahon

Graeme McMahon
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 25 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 16 June 2012 - 03:56 AM

Thanks,

I failed to add a make up option. The variable I didn't include in my tests.

Thanks.

Graeme
  • 0

#5 blake williams

blake williams
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 22 May 2013 - 02:16 PM

The skin is reflecting a soft light, that's all -- you can see the lights in his eyes. But the skin has to have enough reflectance in it, sometimes some baby oil can help if you want a lot of shine.

 

Will some DPs apply oil to the actors faces in every shot to achieve this certain look? If so are there any examples?


  • 0

#6 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 19765 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 22 May 2013 - 04:08 PM

A DP isn't going to be applying anything to an actor's skin... There are make-up people for that sort of thing.
  • 1

#7 blake williams

blake williams
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 23 May 2013 - 02:36 AM

A DP isn't going to be applying anything to an actor's skin... There are make-up people for that sort of thing.

 

..yes..The correctly formulated question:

Will some DPs order the make-up department to apply oil to the actors faces in every shot to achieve this certain look? If so are there any examples?


  • 0

#8 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 19765 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 23 May 2013 - 11:14 AM

Filmmaking is a collaborative art and how the make-up looks on the actor is under the control of the make-up supervisor, so if you and the director want that shiny look, it's something the two of you would discuss with the make-up supervisor.  I don't "order" a make-up person to do anything, any more than I would "order" the costume designer to put the actress in a green dress or "order" the editor which take to use in the edit.  As a DP, I have three departments under my control: Camera, Grip, and Electric (and Grip and Electric have their own supervisors that I work through.)

 

Probably any movie where a character spends a huge chunk of time being sweaty (like the last act in "Alien") will involve some make-up technique to keep them shiny, from skin oils to spritzing water on them before each take.

 

Some actors have naturally shiny skin so in some cases, it's more a matter of not covering them with a matte make-up or powder. There are many degrees of shiny skin which is why you need the help of a make-up artist.


  • 0

#9 blake williams

blake williams
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 23 May 2013 - 01:05 PM

Filmmaking is a collaborative art and how the make-up looks on the actor is under the control of the make-up supervisor, so if you and the director want that shiny look, it's something the two of you would discuss with the make-up supervisor.  I don't "order" a make-up person to do anything, any more than I would "order" the costume designer to put the actress in a green dress or "order" the editor which take to use in the edit.  As a DP, I have three departments under my control: Camera, Grip, and Electric (and Grip and Electric have their own supervisors that I work through.)

 

Probably any movie where a character spends a huge chunk of time being sweaty (like the last act in "Alien") will involve some make-up technique to keep them shiny, from skin oils to spritzing water on them before each take.

 

Some actors have naturally shiny skin so in some cases, it's more a matter of not covering them with a matte make-up or powder. There are many degrees of shiny skin which is why you need the help of a make-up artist.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

I do understand that it is the make-up department that apply the make-up.

I do understand that film is a collaborative artform.

 

My interest is only in the effect itself and not how the creative choice is made.

 

So the effect would not be employed solely as an unmotivated stylistic choice, not for the purpose of creating a sweaty look? 

 

 

 

..


  • 0

#10 David Mullen ASC

David Mullen ASC
  • Sustaining Members
  • 19765 posts
  • Cinematographer
  • Los Angeles

Posted 23 May 2013 - 04:05 PM

I'm sure one can come up with a project where this is a consistent effect for stylistic reasons. I can't think of one offhand but I'm sure some movie has been made where the actors' skin has a certain high level of sheen to it. It's more likely to be done for something shorter like a commercial however. But I'm sure there are a number of movies where the look is more subtle, where the director didn't want that matte / powdered skin look that is popular today.

I will say that one reason dulling skin down was so common in the past decade was the limited dynamic range of Rec.709 HD digital cameras... Shiny skin would tend to clip unnaturally in the hot spots, giving the image an electronic look. Some movies even resorted to shooting everything with a Pola filter to reduce the gloss on the skin, and powder was liberally applied. Luckily this is less of an issue with a modern camera like an ARRI Alexa shooting log or raw.

Look, Blake, language is important... If you didn't actually mean to use terms like "order" or "apply" for the actions of the DP in regards to make-up then pick better words and then you won't be misunderstood.
  • 0

#11 blake williams

blake williams
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 23 May 2013 - 06:45 PM

"Crimson tide" comes to my mind, although they certainly were meant to look sweaty for some scenes.

 

Mr. Mullen, your dedication to answering questions and helping is truely admirable.

I didn't pick better words because pointing out that the DP doesn't do the make-up and that there is collaboration between departments seemed redundant. Also, It was obviously not the point of the post.

 

I cannot see how the real point of the post could be misunderstood without it being a conscious effort. If you feel passionate about correctness in every aspect before giving a reply then I understand and thats fine.


  • 0

#12 Jared Rosemeier

Jared Rosemeier

    New

  • Basic Members
  • Pip
  • 1 posts
  • Student

Posted 24 May 2013 - 06:39 AM

I'm not one for getting sucked into butts on the internet. So ill keep it sort Blake. 

One - Language is impoortant in the role of a cinematographer, anyone with a little experience should know that (in fact most aspects of life its important)

 

Two - I go by the theory in life 'Help other help you' or if thats to much for you, 'make it easy for people to help you'

 

Dont be an butt, this isn't the place for it.


  • 0

#13 blake williams

blake williams
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 24 May 2013 - 07:28 AM

I'm not one for getting sucked into butts on the internet. So ill keep it sort Blake. 

One - Language is impoortant in the role of a cinematographer, anyone with a little experience should know that (in fact most aspects of life its important)

 

Two - I go by the theory in life 'Help other help you' or if thats to much for you, 'make it easy for people to help you'

 

Dont be an butt, this isn't the place for it.

 

Thanks for the wise words Jared. You really struck a blow for good vibrations with that comment.


  • 0


Metropolis Post

Rig Wheels Passport

Ritter Battery

Aerial Filmworks

Technodolly

Glidecam

Wooden Camera

Visual Products

FJS International, LLC

rebotnix Technologies

Tai Audio

The Slider

Paralinx LLC

Abel Cine

Willys Widgets

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

CineTape

CineLab

Opal

Broadcast Solutions Inc

Technodolly

Rig Wheels Passport

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

CineTape

Tai Audio

Opal

Metropolis Post

Ritter Battery

Aerial Filmworks

Visual Products

CineLab

Willys Widgets

Broadcast Solutions Inc

FJS International, LLC

Paralinx LLC

The Slider

Wooden Camera

rebotnix Technologies

Abel Cine

Glidecam