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Krasnogorsk-3


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#1 Richard Ian

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 08:13 PM

Hi,

Recently bought a second-hand Krasnogorsk-3 dating to 1979. I can't find any dedicated support forums for this camera & I'd like to hear how folks get on with it please? Any tips? Any pitfalls? And so forth!

Had a heck of a job loading it, fogged half the film consequently, but persevered & got footage, so the camera works and takes pictures. The light meter is dead but I use a hand held meter anyway.

Thanks,

Ric
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#2 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 28 June 2012 - 09:24 PM

This is the right place, type rasnogorsk-3 in the search box for "this forum" When I just tried it I got "Your search for the term krasnogorsk-3 returned 122 results"

Have a good time reading. they are popular spring wound cameras.
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#3 Richard Ian

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 12:38 PM

Thanks Charles,

First thing I notice forum link is that folks recommend ND filters for shooting outdoors. I shot or rather tried to shoot Tri-X recently on a sunny day [asa200] - ridiculous - the Gossen meter was telling me to set an aperture of f.64. Although I plan to use Kodak 100D what ND filter would get my film speed down to 50 instead of 100 please?

I shot Velvia 50 on a sunny day & the results were good.

Ric
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#4 Will Montgomery

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 02:11 PM

Congrats, a K3 was my first 16mm camera.

Definitely search the forum as there is much talk about this camera.

A few quick points:

  • Don't worry about the meter, I've only ever heard of a few people using the internal one ever
  • Don't use the cheap plastic take-up reels that come with it, once you've shot a roll, use the metal ones from Kodak or Fuji after that
  • Look for Pentax M42 mount lenses. You can find some on eBay cheap and they are really good. Even a 50mm will be useful at some point but a 20 or 24 is great. Makes the camera lighter
  • The main mod that is recommended is to remove the loop formers. They tend to scratch the film and generally be a pain to use. Bernie O'Doherty at Super 16, Inc. can do that and more for you
  • Speaking of Bernie, his "Laserbrighten" process will make your viewfinder noticeably brighter; big improvement
  • Super 16 conversion is really easy; just widen the gate (another job for Bernie) you can look out for a reentered lens mount but not absolutely needed.
  • Work on your arm muscles, winding that thing is a pain

    Good luck, you don't really need to do anything to it except shoot, but if you get into it, consider some of the above mods.

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#5 Richard Ian

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 03:10 PM

Hi Will,

[*]Don't worry about the meter, I've only ever heard of a few people using the internal one ever


I use a Gossen 6, I use it for my H16 as well.

[*]Don't use the cheap plastic take-up reels that come with it, once you've shot a roll, use the metal ones from Kodak or Fuji after that


That's a shame, the K-3 toothed reel system is a good idea but those plastic reels are going to squash & warp over time.

[*]Look for Pentax M42 mount lenses. You can find some on eBay cheap and they are really good. Even a 50mm will be useful at some point but a 20 or 24 is great. Makes the camera lighter


Don't mind the weight. My K-3 is a bayonet mount so I am probably limited to K-3 lenses but that is ok by me.



[*]The main mod that is recommended is to remove the loop formers. They tend to scratch the film and generally be a pain to use. Bernie O'Doherty at Super 16, Inc. can do that and more for you


Thanks, I will look at the loop formers if they become a problem.

[*]Speaking of Bernie, his "Laserbrighten" process will make your viewfinder noticeably brighter; big improvement


The viewfinder is dark like the H16 but you sort of get used to that after a while, so take a reading, focus on full aperture then stop down (if you remember to!) [lol] The view screen (mirror? ground glass?) looks filthy, can you get body caps for K-3s please?

Any tips on loading please?
I got mine loaded & running but it was a trauma, much trickier than the H16.

Many thanks,

Ric
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#6 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 04:33 PM

First thing I notice is that folks recommend ND filters for shooting outdoors. I shot or rather tried to shoot Tri-X recently on a sunny day [asa200] - ridiculous - the Gossen meter was telling me to set an aperture of f.64.


That is a common problem with all Movie cameras. Your shutter speed is generally around 1/50 or 1/60 of a second, which would require f16 on a sunny day with ASA (ISO) 50 film. Even that might need some ND as many shots you would want f5.6 or so to throw the background out of focus. You may want to try and find a complete set. I think the full Kit came with a bunch of filters, some of them ND.

The non-pentax version of the K3 is supposed to take a few different Soviet Lenses.

(that reminds me that a search for K3 may bring up more posts on the forum)
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#7 Richard Ian

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 07:01 PM

...You may want to try and find a complete [ND] set. I think the full Kit came with a bunch of filters, some of them ND...


Thanks. As a rough guide, what ND would reduce my 100 film to 50 please - or is that too simplistic an approach?

I have a full set of NDs for my H16 plus - at length - a full set of ND filter trays now.

Ric
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#8 Richard Ian

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 07:20 PM

OK here is the Krasnogorsk footage

Krasnogorsk-3 test

This was late evening so the light was kinder on the 200 speed film. The aperture diaphragm is the smoothest I have ever known so I may have set f.stops then scrambled them whilst filming without realising it, but most shots equate to the exposure notes I took. Sometimes I forget to stop down as well, - like the first sky/trees pass.

Earlier that day the camera had been driven many miles to a scenic location in scorching sunshine where it multiple jammed and had to be opened several times. It is a miracle any film survived. Those daylight reels really are daylight reels!

Now to the serious stuff: I have noticed what looks like a tiny ball of fluff right in the middle of the movie rectangle, it only shows up when the camera is tracking. You first notice at at 0.17" and at 0.33" it starts off right in the centre of the shot on a leaf. The dot is static so it appears to move with the action.

I checked the lens which looks newer than the camera with pristine optics. I don't understand the K-3 well enough to hazard a guess as to what could cause such an imperfection in it. Indeed, is it the camera at all? I could swap lenses on the projector, that would definitely tell me if the glitch is with the new camera or something to do with the projector instead (I only recently acquired a new projector lens so it has to be suspect at the moment).

The Tri-X was developed in D-76 as negative film then reversed in software.

Many thanks,

Ric
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#9 Richard Ian

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 06:26 PM

Now to the serious stuff: I have noticed what looks like a tiny ball of fluff right in the middle of the movie rectangle, it only shows up when the camera is tracking. You first notice at at 0.17" and at 0.33" it starts off right in the centre of the shot on a leaf. The dot is static so it appears to move with the action.

I checked the lens which looks newer than the camera with pristine optics. I don't understand the K-3 well enough to hazard a guess as to what could cause such an imperfection in it. Indeed, is it the camera at all? I could swap lenses on the projector, that would definitely tell me if the glitch is with the new camera or something to do with the projector instead (I only recently acquired a new projector lens so it has to be suspect at the moment)


Well I was wrong about the K-3 lens: under a strong light using a magnifying glass all sort of things started to show up. What do you think please?

Krasnogorsk-3 zoom lens

I swapped lenses on my projector but the mark was still there - it has to be the K-3 lens, you can see that mark in the centre of the front optic, looks like a microscopic chip in a windscreen but whatever it is, it doesn't seem to be on the surface of the lens.

Comments please?

Many thanks,

Ric
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#10 Richard Boddington

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Posted 30 June 2012 - 10:12 PM

Really amazing camera. I shot everything on this Fotosearch page with my K3:

http://www.fotosearc...e-lapse/TME702/

Have a look at these ocean shots, they look exactly like they were shot on 35mm, with a zeiss prime, on the 435:

http://www.fotosearc.../TME702/702-31/

http://www.fotosearc.../TME702/702-33/

Those were shot at sunset at Alexandria Egypt. There's certainly no video camera that could of done that!!

R,
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#11 Richard Ian

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 07:27 AM

Really amazing camera. I shot everything on this Fotosearch page with my K3


Excellent!

What do you make of the imperfections within my Krasnogorsk lens though? It really would help me if someone can identify what is going on here.

Many thanks,

Ric
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#12 Richard Boddington

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 12:36 PM

Aside from the effects of aging, not sure I see much damage there.

R,
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#13 Mark Dunn

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 01:28 PM

That mark isn't down to the lens. It would be much more diffuse.
With a mirror shutter there's nothing in the light path so it must be the transfer.
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#14 Chris Burke

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 01:43 PM

I would pick up a Peleng 8mm and perhaps another zoom, both are cheap. PM me, I have some parts cameras and lenses.
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#15 Richard Ian

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Posted 01 July 2012 - 07:48 PM

Aside from the effects of aging, not sure I see much damage there.


Thanks. That's a relief! I thought for a moment there that it might be lens fungus?


lens fungus example
as above

Ric
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#16 Richard Ian

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:45 AM

Thanks. That's a relief! I thought for a moment there that it might be lens fungus?


lens fungus example
as above


Hi Richard,

I'd be grateful for your comment please - this business is holding me up no end until I can work out what the problem is? Mark also - could you give a little clearer picture of where you think the problem with the transfer might lie please: are you thinking the dv cam might have a speck in its lens or something like that? I have removed the projector lens from the equation by swapping projector lenses on two separate transfers of the same clip - the mark remains. So it's not the projector lens / lenses. Possibly the projector light source but then again a dot like that would show up when I am squaring the film gate in the dv cam - I have never noticed anything like that.

So I thought I'd better take a look at the raw film. Here's a set comprising software frame captures of the dot in apparent motion (actually static) as the camera pans across the sky. The dot is circled in red. Then there follow several frames focusing the dot (circled in grey) but individually photographed. It seems pretty obvious that the dot is actually on the film itself which would tend to point the finger back at the Krasnogorsk zoom lens?

K-3 Frames

Thanks again,

Ric
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#17 Richard Ian

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 10:51 AM

I would pick up a Peleng 8mm and perhaps another zoom, both are cheap. PM me, I have some parts cameras and lenses.


Thanks. Yes I think another lens is probably the answer?

Ric
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#18 Richard Boddington

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 11:53 AM

A sky shot is really not the best way to test the lens. I would suggest you set up a board in the studio of a solid colour and shoot that with studio lighting, making it as even as you can get. Possibly use one large super soft if you can get one.

Shoot a black board, white board, blue board and green board, on a locked off tri-pod shot. Roll for 10 secs on each board.

You need to eliminate as many outside variables as possible, which is why I suggest testing in studio.

Once you look at this in transfer, any problems with the lens will be evident. Of course you also need to ensure that you have loaded correctly so that a scratch isn't being placed on each frame in the same spot.

R,
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#19 Richard Ian

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 02:52 PM

A sky shot is really not the best way to test the lens. I would suggest you set up a board in the studio ...


Thanks Richard,

Will keep your instructions for future reference.

I don't mind scratches that much, they're part & parcel of the cine experience for me. But I draw the line at compromised optics, and that lens is crawling with fungus. If you tilt the rear optic to one side and allow a light source to enter you can actually see silvery gossamer filaments inside, highlighted against the dark, it turns my stomach. I don't know how many elements go to make a Krasnogorsk zoom but if the front element is in that state who knows what is lurking within?

Am returning the lens to the vendor for a replacement - fingers crossed - love Russian cameras but this is the second Soviet era lens I have had turn up with fungus, the first was a Kiev 60 lens, a 50mm beauty but it had to go :(

Thanks again,

Ric
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#20 Richard Ian

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Posted 02 July 2012 - 02:56 PM

I would pick up a Peleng 8mm...


Do these hook up or convert to c-mount or Krasnogorsk bayonet mounts please?

Thanks,

Ric
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