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Double 8mm as 16mm


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#1 Gautam Valluri

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 07:46 AM

Hey guys,

So I recently discovered a 50' roll of Double 8mm Kodachrome! My recently deceased maternal grandfather had given me his Kodak Brownie 8mm camera a few years ago but I never really paid attention to the film roll that was packed with it.

Needless to say, it expired a long time ago- I'm guessing sometime in the 1960s or 70s but it is sealed in a daylight spool and I'd like to see if it works!

So my question to you all is this.

Since the Double 8mm format was technically a 16mm gauge film that was exposed in half-frame over two runs of the filmroll, could I run it in my 16mm Krasnogorsk 3?

Let me know your thoughts.

Best,
G
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#2 Geoff Howell

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 07:55 AM

I don't see why not, but why would you want to?

also, I'm not sure you will be able to find anywhere that still processes Kodachrome.
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#3 Gautam Valluri

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 08:54 AM

I don't see why not, but why would you want to?

also, I'm not sure you will be able to find anywhere that still processes Kodachrome.


Hey Geoff,

Found this link online: http://www.theoldfil...com/Page5_1.htm Hopefully, they will be of some help.


I was wondering if the perfs on the Double 8 will fit seamlessly into the 16mm cogs of my K3?
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#4 Geoff Howell

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 09:13 AM

as far as I know the film itself will run as it's effectively just 16mm but with twice the perforations. as to weather or not the actual spool fits into the camera I don't know, in the worst case you can just re-spool it.

also, that link states that they can only process Kodachrome in black and white with a 75% success rate, if you're happy with that than go for it!

there's also this place in Margate that offers the same type of service
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#5 Gautam Valluri

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 09:40 AM

as far as I know the film itself will run as it's effectively just 16mm but with twice the perforations. as to weather or not the actual spool fits into the camera I don't know, in the worst case you can just re-spool it.

also, that link states that they can only process Kodachrome in black and white with a 75% success rate, if you're happy with that than go for it!

there's also this place in Margate that offers the same type of service


Hey,

Thanks so much for the link.

Well, it's a 50ft daylight spool and I think it'll fit into the K-3's chamber which takes in 100ft spools.
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#6 Geoff Howell

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 09:56 AM

I meant getting the 50ft spool to fit on to the K3's drive axle.

I'm not sure if 16mm cameras use the same size axle as double-8mm cameras.
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#7 Miguel Loredo

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 12:47 PM

It must be 25' spool, not 50'. In Standard 8 the film was cut by the middle in two stripes, giving the final 50' but it is 25' for 16mm. You can use it in 16 mm... but again, Kodachrome is no longer processed. All they could do for you is develope it as B/W with some success depending on how old it is.
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#8 Charlie Peich

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 01:05 PM

I meant getting the 50ft spool to fit on to the K3's drive axle.

I'm not sure if 16mm cameras use the same size axle as double-8mm cameras.


Greetings Gautam!

The roll of film that was included with the Brownie camera you inherited is most likely a 25 ft long, 16mm wide film perforated for "regular or standard" 8mm format. When the film was exposed and processed, it was slit in half , spliced together to give you 50 ft of standard 8mm film.

Please read this Wikipedia article, "Standard 8mm fim" .


Yes, you can run the film through your 16mm camera (only one time), you just have an extra sprocket hole between the ones your 16mm camera uses. If you were to project your "double 8" film shot in a 16mm camera, you would have to be careful how you lined it up in the projector because of the extra sprocket holes.

However, the 25ft 8mm spool you have will not work in the 16mm camera.


Feed spool hole "side one" when loaded in the camera ............................................Take-up spool hole
Posted Image


Better picture of the spool hole on the take-up side
Posted Image

Comparison of the 25 ft 8mm spool and the 100 ft 16mm spool.
Posted Image


Charlie

Edited by Charlie Peich, 15 August 2012 - 01:09 PM.

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#9 Charles MacDonald

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Posted 15 August 2012 - 01:14 PM

It must be 25' spool, not 50'. In Standard 8 the film was cut by the middle in two stripes, giving the final 50' but it is 25' for 16mm...... All they could do for you is develope it as B/W with some success depending on how old it is.


And if they process it as a batch of regualr 8, they might slit in down the moiddle before they notice that it is Not really regular 8.

Perhaps a better way to Honor your Relative gift would be to get some fresh Regular 8 and shoot it in the brownie. I am sure that John Schwind does not really need the plug - but he has regular 8 Supplies as long as Kodak will make the film for him at http://www.zerelda.c...tionalfilm.html All the stocks that John sells are current and can be processed at almost any film lab. MOST labs have a film slitter to set the film up as Regular 8.
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#10 Gautam Valluri

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 01:52 AM

Greetings Gautam!

The roll of film that was included with the Brownie camera you inherited is most likely a 25 ft long, 16mm wide film perforated for "regular or standard" 8mm format. When the film was exposed and processed, it was slit in half , spliced together to give you 50 ft of standard 8mm film.

Please read this Wikipedia article, "Standard 8mm fim" .


Yes, you can run the film through your 16mm camera (only one time), you just have an extra sprocket hole between the ones your 16mm camera uses. If you were to project your "double 8" film shot in a 16mm camera, you would have to be careful how you lined it up in the projector because of the extra sprocket holes.

However, the 25ft 8mm spool you have will not work in the 16mm camera.

Charlie


Charlie,

So nice of you to post those pictures, thank you! Showing something visually is the best way to explain something to me (wish my teachers knew that in school!).

I could probably get my local lab to re-spool the Kodachrome onto a 100' daylight spool.

Also, like Miguel had pointed out, since its 25', I'm guessing that is 40 seconds of footage! I had been wanting to shoot on Kodachrome for so many years, never realizing that it was always right there, under my nose, all 40 seconds of it.

Thanks guys!
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#11 Gautam Valluri

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 02:02 AM

And if they process it as a batch of regualr 8, they might slit in down the moiddle before they notice that it is Not really regular 8.

Perhaps a better way to Honor your Relative gift would be to get some fresh Regular 8 and shoot it in the brownie. I am sure that John Schwind does not really need the plug - but he has regular 8 Supplies as long as Kodak will make the film for him at http://www.zerelda.c...tionalfilm.html All the stocks that John sells are current and can be processed at almost any film lab. MOST labs have a film slitter to set the film up as Regular 8.


Hey Charles,

This is incredible! Thanks so much for the link, I can't believe how reasonable the prices are considering what a rare service they are providing.

And you are right, the better way to honour my grandfather's gift is to use the camera as it was meant to be used.

Best,
Gautam
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#12 andy oliver

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Posted 16 August 2012 - 05:43 PM

Hiya, as already pointed out, you cannot get kodachrome processed in colour anymore, given the age of the film, imo you really are waisting cash on out dated film, just buy fresh. One other thing, if you decide to expose double 8mm stock as 16mm, advise the lab as they may just split the film thinking its 8mm...
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#13 Nicholas Kovats

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Posted 17 August 2012 - 11:21 AM

Gautam,

You can utilize your 50ft daylight spool of 2R-1497 perforated Regular 8 film with the 16mm pulldown of your K3. However your total runtime will be halved. But you cannot do the inverse. That is, use single perf (1R-2994) 16mm in a Regular 8mm camera. The 8mm pulldown will "re-perforate" your 16mm film and will potentially damage your 8mm transport.

Take a look at what Regular 8mm film is capable of. Specifically Ektachrome 100D color reversal film, e.g.http://vimeo.com/39417454.

Regards,

Nicholas
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#14 Will Montgomery

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Posted 20 August 2012 - 10:00 AM

I have labs process regular 8 as 16mm all the time since it's easier for me to get good telecine of 16mm but not regular 8mm. Just shoot it on your 16mm camera and tell the lab NOT to split it. The real question is if the processing is still available for that type of film.

If it's Kodachrome than get forget it; not worth the effort and expense to try to process it as B&W then get next to nothing usable.

You can however order fresh Regular 8mm 25 foot (50 foot of 8mm), shoot it on a 16mm camera and process it. Not very efficient, but it can certainly be done.
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#15 Gautam Valluri

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 12:04 AM

I have labs process regular 8 as 16mm all the time since it's easier for me to get good telecine of 16mm but not regular 8mm. Just shoot it on your 16mm camera and tell the lab NOT to split it. The real question is if the processing is still available for that type of film.

If it's Kodachrome than get forget it; not worth the effort and expense to try to process it as B&W then get next to nothing usable.

You can however order fresh Regular 8mm 25 foot (50 foot of 8mm), shoot it on a 16mm camera and process it. Not very efficient, but it can certainly be done.


Hey WIll,

Thanks for the advice. I only hope Kodak churns out that limited edition run of Kodachrome they've been talking about.

Best,
Gautam
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#16 Will Montgomery

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 11:20 AM

Thanks for the advice. I only hope Kodak churns out that limited edition run of Kodachrome they've been talking about.

I love Kodachrome for two reasons: 1) It lasts almost FOREVER and doesn't fade. 2) The pastel colors you get are unlike any other film. Not particularly accurate, but very flattering on faces.

I'd love to start a Kickstarter project that would try to restart Kodachrome; but making the film is only half of the problem. Getting someone to process it is the biggie. Don't know what Dwayne's has done with their equipment but I wouldn't think it's ready to go. Plus the chemicals for processing are difficult to manufacture as well.
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#17 Gautam Valluri

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Posted 21 August 2012 - 04:34 PM

I love Kodachrome for two reasons: 1) It lasts almost FOREVER and doesn't fade. 2) The pastel colors you get are unlike any other film. Not particularly accurate, but very flattering on faces.

I'd love to start a Kickstarter project that would try to restart Kodachrome; but making the film is only half of the problem. Getting someone to process it is the biggie. Don't know what Dwayne's has done with their equipment but I wouldn't think it's ready to go. Plus the chemicals for processing are difficult to manufacture as well.


Talking of Kickstarter campaigns, there are rumours on the internet that groups of photographers here and there are trying to develop their own version of the Kodachrome emulsion that works with the K-14 process.

Its fascinating to read how the process works: http://en.wikipedia....ki/K-14_process

Perhas Kodak would've been better off jacking up the price of Kodachrome stocks to unreasonable levels to meet their profits. That way at least, we would've still had Kodachrome!

Anyway, this is a discussion for a different thread.

Best,
G
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