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Konvas Anamophic 101? And anyone selling a Konvas?


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#1 Clint Nitkiewicz Hernandez

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 05:28 AM

Hi,

Can someone please let me know everything that's needed to get footage like this? I want to film 2:39 (2:35) aspect ratio. I will be doing a telecine to HD pro res video, will it be best to go to 1920x1080 with black bars at top and bottom?




I can't contact the owner of the footage to ask him personally, so can we please break it down?

What is needed if I buy a standard Konvas 1M or 2M?

- Individual Anamorphic Prime's? Or an Anamorphic Zoom? What kind would fit this camera?
- Buy and install an anamorphic gate? Take to a company in LA to do this?
- Anything else needed? Special lenses or special telecine conversion?

Also can you please let me know anything else about anamorphic? Anamorphic 101 in case I'm leaving anything out?
- Should I convert the Konvas to 2 or 3 perf? Will this cost more or use more film or cost more at the processing or telecine stage?

Any info would be appreciated, thank you! :)
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#2 Steve Zimmerman

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 12:36 PM

Those are actually my clips.

I gave up on my Lomo anamorphic lenses. Traded up to some nice new Zeiss CP primes.

Just a word of warning before you jump into anamorphic. If not already perfectly setup, working with anamorphic lenses is a PAIN IN THE ASS. For the Lomo square fronts, you have to get the lens' mounts "clocking" corrected,(the squeeze lens elements have to be perfectly vertical) or else the image will be warped. Sure, all this stuff can be corrected, but all this can involve more time and money. Most lens techs do not even service Lomo lenses any more.

The nine (3 Ana PL and 6 spherical Oct19) Lomo lenses I've used created rather soft, hazy images, even when perfectly setup and cleaned! This was just before the techs decided they weren't worth the effort. The Ana's were the better quality of the two. You're not going to get even remotely close to Panavision/Hawk anamorphic lens quality with them. --But if you like that look, go for it!

I have a Konvas 1M w/ a PL mount, and I think it's great. It's very portable. The camera is a workhorse, the magazine is harder to load, but not too bad. I got it modified to S35. More time and money. Better to find a camera that's at least already upgraded to PL. With Oct18/19 mount you are stuck with Lomo lenses. If the camera is in great shape and basically ready to go, a lubrication and cleaning isn't too expensive.

Hope this didn't come across too cynical, just trying to help others streamline their efforts.

Get a quality camera with a useful PL mount. Most important even that the camera, get some high quality lenses to use with it. Make your movie. Good Luck :-).

Edited by Steve Zimmerman, 24 August 2012 - 12:40 PM.

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#3 Steve Zimmerman

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 12:48 PM

Also, read this FAQ for Anamorphic lenses:
http://www.cinematog...?showtopic=4690

At this point, I would say cropping S35 in post is cheaper and much easier. If you have the time and money for anamorphic, go for it!

2Perf 2.35 gives you much less quality, because when scanning 2k, you are getting a less than an HD scan. Why oh why isn't 4K scanning cheaper?? :-P

Steve

Edited by Steve Zimmerman, 24 August 2012 - 12:49 PM.

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#4 Clint Nitkiewicz Hernandez

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 03:29 PM

Hi Steve, thanks so much for responding.

You're footage looked great to me. Are you able to upload a few still images from the 2K scan? I would love to see what it really looks like.

I definitely want to go anamorphic for the story I am telling with this film project. I don't have tons to spend, but anamorphic is a must. So you recommend the Hawk anamorphic lens? Is that a projector lens? I am still a little confused about anamorphic lenses, because now people are using anamorphic projector lenses on top of DSLRs, as a cheap alternative? Do you recommend this? Or to get a real anamorphic lens?

This guy selling a Hawk on ebay, appears to be a projector lens. So I assume this is not the one you're talking about?
http://www.ebay.com/...#ht_3548wt_1141


If I wanted to go for a Gladiator, or Braveheart look, what kind of film stock do you recommend? I will be shooting 90% outdoors forest scenes, and some interior temple scenes.

I told a rep at Fuji film this, and he recommend this new film,


But that film looks very crisp and sharp, which may or may not be a good thing. If I use the Konvas with that film, will it look like that Fuji film? If I use recanned short ends stock or older film will it look more like your film?

Thanks for all your help!
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#5 Steve Zimmerman

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 07:39 AM

Hawk Lenses:
http://www.vantagefi...namorphic.shtml
http://www.vantagefilm.com

You would need to find a place that rents them. I read the Hawk's don't make the cool lens flares of other anamorphic lenses.

respond more later.
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#6 John Holland

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 11:19 AM

Hawks are fantastic anamorphics but dont produce the flares you are after, you need something like Panavision "C" or earlier lenses to get that but you can only rent them from Panavision and they dont rent them out without a camera !
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#7 James Compton

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 01:09 PM

Hi,

Can someone please let me know everything that's needed to get footage like this? I want to film 2:39 (2:35) aspect ratio. I will be doing a telecine to HD pro res video, will it be best to go to 1920x1080 with black bars at top and bottom?




I can't contact the owner of the footage to ask him personally, so can we please break it down?

What is needed if I buy a standard Konvas 1M or 2M?

- Individual Anamorphic Prime's? Or an Anamorphic Zoom? What kind would fit this camera?
- Buy and install an anamorphic gate? Take to a company in LA to do this?
- Anything else needed? Special lenses or special telecine conversion?

Also can you please let me know anything else about anamorphic? Anamorphic 101 in case I'm leaving anything out?
- Should I convert the Konvas to 2 or 3 perf? Will this cost more or use more film or cost more at the processing or telecine stage?

Any info would be appreciated, thank you! :)



The Lomo anamorphic haze issue can be resolved by using a polarizer on the lens when shooting outdoors in daylight, and underxposing 1/3 stop and pushing the film in the lab 1 stop. The result is an added image hardness that is similar to the older KODAK EXR film stocks.
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#8 Clint Nitkiewicz Hernandez

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 02:23 PM

The Lomo anamorphic haze issue can be resolved by using a polarizer on the lens when shooting outdoors in daylight, and underxposing 1/3 stop and pushing the film in the lab 1 stop. The result is an added image hardness that is similar to the older KODAK EXR film stocks.


Thanks for that tip also James, I will certainly test that method. Sorry, what do you mean by underexposing by 1/3 of a stop? If my light meter tells me to light at f11 for example, and the nearest f stops are f8 and f16 on the lens, what do you mean by 1/3 of a stop? Thanks.

Steve where can I buy these oct 19's, oct 18's and Ana lenses? I can't find any anamorphic lenses anywhere, any tips? Where did you buy your anamorphic set? Thanks.
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#9 Clint Nitkiewicz Hernandez

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 02:31 PM

The Lomo anamorphic haze issue can be resolved by using a polarizer on the lens when shooting outdoors in daylight, and underxposing 1/3 stop and pushing the film in the lab 1 stop. The result is an added image hardness that is similar to the older KODAK EXR film stocks.


Thanks for that tip also James, I will certainly test that method. Sorry, what do you mean by underexposing by 1/3 of a stop? If my light meter tells me to light at f11 for example, and the nearest f stops are f8 and f16 on the lens, what do you mean by 1/3 of a stop? Thanks.

Steve where can I buy these same exact lenses that you used? I just got an email back from rafcamera and they don't have any anamorphics. Hawks are definitely out of the price range, I would be happy to use the same lenses you did, to me your footage looks great, plus maybe just sharpening the image in post might help if I think it's still too hazy.


Thanks.
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#10 James Compton

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 03:02 PM

Thanks for that tip also James, I will certainly test that method. Sorry, what do you mean by underexposing by 1/3 of a stop? If my light meter tells me to light at f11 for example, and the nearest f stops are f8 and f16 on the lens, what do you mean by 1/3 of a stop? Thanks.

Steve where can I buy these same exact lenses that you used? I just got an email back from rafcamera and they don't have any anamorphics. Hawks are definitely out of the price range, I would be happy to use the same lenses you did, to me your footage looks great, plus maybe just sharpening the image in post might help if I think it's still too hazy.


Thanks.


The easiest way to consistently underexpose a scene is to set your light meter 1/3 lower than the normal rating for the film stock. For example, FUJI 8546 250 Daylight VIVID is a 250 ASA film. Set your light meter to 200 ASA. That will allow you to shoot all the angles in that scene with the same level of underexposure (remember to keep your contrast ratio consistent throughout the scene). It will prevent you from being confused.
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#11 Steve Zimmerman

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 07:51 PM

Just be forewarned when buying Lomo lenses. No lens techs in the US will work on them! --And if they do work on them, they may literally hold on to them for SIX months, never touch them, and send them back. They consider them junk. They wear out quickly and there are no spare parts. This was the experience of myself and my partner. The look like they have a built in low contrast/diffusion filter, that's what I meant by hazy, that problem was mostly w/ the Spherical Lomos. Back light would really glow around the person when using the bare lens. Since you are in LA, Indi35 (http://indi35.com/) has the lenses for rent. Try that first before dipping into the Lomo lens money pit.
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#12 Rob.m.Neilson

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 10:44 AM

Bernie at Super 16 will work on Lomos! He did a wonderful job with mine!
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#13 Kip Kubin

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 04:50 PM

Jacek at Optek and Stuart of Focus Optics work on Lomo Sq Fronts and do an amazing job..just FYI
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#14 Bruce Taylor

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 02:13 PM

I highly recommend Stuart at Focus Optics in Burbank. But sometimes you have to push him to get the work done. Don't overload him with too many lenses either. No lens tech likes to work on the Lomos because they are such a challenge mechanically (poor materials, tolerances too large), but Stuart has mine in top shape now.

I suggest you rent the lenses you want. They are very expensive, and most of the ones you buy will have issues that will take time and money to sort out. About a year ago I had a guy who was going to do a long term rental for a feature but ended up buying his own set (3 or 4 roundfront primes) instead, paid $27,000 on ebay for them. I think Slow Motion Inc in Burbank rents the Hawks in PL. A lot of people like the Lomo flares. Take a look at Ernesto Lomeli's site (he's a DP in LA) there are some examples of my lenses on a Snoop Dogg and fashion videos. They are a good example of what artifacts you can get with the Lomo roundfronts. Also, Morgan Schmidt (also a DP in LA) has a set of Lomo roundfront anamorphics for rent, I am pretty sure they are in PL mount. I refer a lot of jobs to him as mine are still in their original OCT19 mounts.

The Lomos work great on the Konvas 2M. Cheap, easy, portable, reliable (once you work out all the bugs!).
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#15 Bruce Taylor

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Posted 11 September 2012 - 02:20 PM

Also, 2 or 3 perf is not a realistic option for Konvas conversion, it requires too much modification. 2 perf can be great (about the same amount of film real estate as Super 35 cropped to 2.35:1)but converting cameras is very costly ($5 to 6k last time I checked). But you can rent them readily (Arri or Panavision). Kodak and Deluxe put on a seminar at Cinegear a couple of years ago with side by side examples of 2 perf and 3 perf. 2 perf looked great. You can probably find the article on the Kodak website.
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#16 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 06 October 2012 - 01:38 AM

As to your questions, The Konvas is super simple and reliable, the gates are easy to swap out, they just kinda lock into place. The made a few different ones including academy, anamorphic, European widescreen (1:66). You can use a deanamorphic viewfinder or just use the spherical viewfinder and frame the squeezed image.

There are Oct-18 mount Lomo anamorphic lenses for the turret Konvas KSR, KSR-1(which I have, 6 volt, hand and animation crank) and 1M in both 2 piece square front anamorphic (which I also have in a small set of 35mm, 50mm and 75mm) which are perhaps the least expensive anamorphics you'll ever find IF you can find them and single piece square front anamorphic which are a little pricy but still very cheap for an anamorphic lens.

The 2M uses an OCT-19 mount and there are round front anamorphics (which I also have in a small set of 35mm, 50mm and 75mm and square front anamorphics and they make an Oct -19 to OCT-18 mount adapter Most Kinor Lomo lenses will work on a Konvas OCT-19 camera but many Konvas OCT-19 lenses may not work on a Kinor because of clearance issues with the mirrored shutter. The anamorphic Lomo zooms are for the most part spherical zooms with an anamorphic rear extension though I believe Ekran made some fully anamorphic zooms. Zooms do have a slightly less sharp image around their edges and can be slightly softer because of the additional lens elements, BUT they can save significant cash over buying a full set of Lomo anamorphic primes.

The Konvas is an inexpensive, very rugged 35mm motion picture camera that can be had for a song but there are NO bells and whistles. Converting it to 2 or 3 perf is VERY expensive and difficult making it cost prohibitive. Bruce at Aranda can do it but it'll cost you and rightly so. It is the cheapest professional 35mm camera you can buy. Reliable when serviced and small and light weight. It is strictly and MOS camera though many have tried Barneys, blimps and software to shoot sound. Don't try to re-invent the wheel with this marvelous little camera, just realize it's limitations and shoot accordingly. Hope this helps. B)
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#17 Steve Zimmerman

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Posted 08 October 2012 - 12:25 AM

A recent discovery I made that makes my Konvas worth even more is After Effects' Warp Stabilizer (built into CS5.5 and CS6). Just select the effect and it automatically just works in minutes to steady gate jitter and weaving, increasing the apparent resolution. A great post production solution for any film cameras without registration pins. Check out the many example videos on youtube for it.

Edited by Steve Zimmerman, 08 October 2012 - 12:28 AM.

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#18 James Steven Beverly

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Posted 10 October 2012 - 03:42 AM

Oh, one thing I should mention is that square front anamorphics in general and Lomo square front anamorphics specifically are far more subject to breathing than round front anamorphics which when rack focusing can easily screw up your shot so be aware. B)
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#19 Clint Nitkiewicz Hernandez

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 03:18 PM

Thanks everyone for your great advice and info. So I have purchased a Konvas 2M camera with the crystal synch motor for only $550 from ebay. It was a great deal! And I picked it up locally here in LA. Later I will be upgrading to the modern digital motor from Olex in Ukraine.

So I want to shoot anamorphic as you know, so I upgraded and purchased a anamorphic desqueezer and anamorphic gate from ebay as well, they shipped from Ukraine and Russia. I'm going to be renting some lomo roundfront anamorphic lenses for the shoots.

The next thing I need now is a video tap device, Rafael over at rafcamera.com let me know that he is sold out and his tech won't be making any more soon, so now I am looking around for one of those so I can complete my camera kit and start shooting.

Does anyone have a videotap from rafcamera for the Konvas 2M? It's the 6th photo down from this link,
http://konvas.org/fa...n-a-konvas.html

Or if you have another proven device, or know of a way I can make one myself please let me know! Though I would prefer the raf version since it's proven, but I'm willing to try anything since I need to get to filming soon.
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