Jump to content


Photo

8mm on Spectra's new HD Spirit


  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 John Hyde

John Hyde
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 151 posts
  • Camera Operator

Posted 04 September 2012 - 07:41 PM

Just had a Spirit HD transfer done at Spectra (mostly 200T neg) and I can say it was worth the wait. Their new 8mm HD transfer work is clearly superior to any Spirit, Shadow or Millennium HD facility I have used thus far.

Obviously they take their time with the color. Pictures are crisp (as 8mm can be), standing up much better to compression. My material holds up quite well when viewed on a large HD screen.

I now plan to shoot more 8 and 16 on future jobs.

They recently put some of their jobs up for viewing:

http://spectrafilman...m/Telecine.html
  • 0

#2 Alessandro Machi

Alessandro Machi
  • Sustaining Members
  • 3318 posts
  • Other
  • California

Posted 04 September 2012 - 09:32 PM

Hey John, thanks for the update. Did you go uncompressed or the very mild compression scheme. I think the mild compression is actually best for workflow requirements, no?
  • 0

#3 Anthony Schilling

Anthony Schilling
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1053 posts
  • Camera Operator
  • Portland, OR

Posted 05 September 2012 - 11:57 AM

That's great! I've been anticipating their new scanner for some time now. The samples look really nice, but I prefer color reversal in S8. Spectra has done some great work for me with 100D and 64T 8/16mm with their SD scanner in the past... can't wait to try them out again.
  • 0

#4 John Hyde

John Hyde
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 151 posts
  • Camera Operator

Posted 05 September 2012 - 04:52 PM

To clarify, Alex, the jobs on Spectra's site are not my own. But, I understood that they were captured with very mild compression (Apple Pro Res HQ) for improved workflow. This is excellent for broadcast HD or internet. You will not see any difference in these situations. And, a bit of compression actually helps smooth things out in some cases.

I myself usually take the 10-bit uncompressed route for maximum flexibility (in case material is used for a blow-up or other purpose). I'm usually a bit on the overkill side.

I can also say that negative film is like a whole new world on the Spirit. It is nothing like what you have seen on a Rank/Millennium/C-Reality. Spirits produce much less noise and the highs are smooth and beautiful. This is party of the reason why all the post houses phased out Ranks years ago in favor of Spirits. As seen from the Spectra samples, you can still get a reversal look from negative when desired.
  • 0

#5 Will Montgomery

Will Montgomery
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2030 posts
  • Producer
  • Dallas, TX

Posted 05 September 2012 - 05:17 PM

Looks amazing. Very happy for them to get it up and running. Probably the only one with that type of gate in the world.

Only wish they could offer HD at SD prices. That might spark more people into trying it. But at $80k for the gate only, it's twice as expensive as a Spirit system with 16 & 35 gates ready to go. I understand why they have to charge $425/hour for it.
  • 0

#6 bureaucrazy

bureaucrazy
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 15 posts
  • Student

Posted 15 September 2012 - 09:25 AM

Is there anywhere to see samples full screen?

Is it better than the Muller HM73?


All the samples of the muller seem to look a bit blueish to me but the detail and sharpness look amazing like seeing real life.

Edited by bureaucrazy, 15 September 2012 - 09:27 AM.

  • 0

#7 David Cunningham

David Cunningham
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1049 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 20 November 2012 - 01:27 PM

I just received by first set of Super 8 negative Spirit scans from Spectra and I have to say the results are fantastic! By far the best scan of Super 8 negative I have personally seen. Although there is still video "noise" it is nothing like the CRT-based machines. It blends in with the film grain (or is even overtaken by it) much more nicely. Definitely THE way to go with Super 8 negatives scans. That is, until I can afford to pay $10k to have it wet-gate scanned on an Oxberry. :)

Now if we could just get Cinelicious to invest in the R&D for a Super 8 gate for the Scanity we'd be all set!
  • 0

#8 Will Montgomery

Will Montgomery
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2030 posts
  • Producer
  • Dallas, TX

Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:55 PM

The economics would hardly make sense to have a Super 8 gate developed for the Scannity. They could only sell a dozen or so probably. However, I do hear good things about the Golden Eye Scanner which can handle almost any film gauge.
  • 0

#9 Paul Korver

Paul Korver
  • Sustaining Members
  • 154 posts
  • Other
  • Los Angeles

Posted 24 December 2012 - 03:02 PM

Good conversation here. Thanks John (or Jerry or Doug) for starting it. I applaud Spectra's hard work and all the money they spent creating a new gate for a Spirit Classic. I sincerely hope the machine holds up long enough for them to get their money back on the gate R&D. The reason we did not do that to our Spirit at Cinelicious is because we're already thinking beyond HD and wouldn't want to invest a ton of money in an HD only machine for Super 8mm / Reg 8mm because we want higher than HD resolution, and we realize we need more dynamic range than a Spirit sensor can provide. Also the Spirit (new gate or not) will never be a perfect machine for the tight tolerances of small gauge film and any company using one will struggle with "watering" in the image and overall image stability. A Super 8mm gate for the Scanity would be awesome but is not going to happen as that is not DFT's focus. However we are looking at some different, very exciting 2K and higher resolution small format scanners and are currently in testing an QC phase. When it comes to Super 8mm and Regular 8mm a few things are true...
1) HD is not enough resolution. Maybe for Tri-X, 500T or old Ektachrome but for old Kodachrome, Vision 3 200T or especially the new Vision 3 50D we need at least 2K resolution horizontally across the top of picture area. And since HD is 16x9 and not a 4x3 format like Super/Reg 8mm film negative it sucks to have to make a choice of either going pillar box and wasting data on black bars (and decreasing resolution) or punching in to 16x9 and getting more resolution but cutting off negative information.
2) We need more dynamic range. Reversal stocks are very very high density and require a scanner that is very high dynamic range in order to properly scan all the information on the negative...or more accurately "positive".
3) We need more stability. There have been huge improvements made in optical pin registration which can achieve perf-ect stability even on small guage film.

Any new Small Guage film scanner we'll invest in at Cinelicious will have all 3 of these capabilities.

Keep an eye out for an announcement in 2013.

Best,

Paul
  • 1

#10 Moises Perez

Moises Perez
  • Basic Members
  • PipPip
  • 55 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 24 December 2012 - 06:44 PM

Just had a Spirit HD transfer done at Spectra (mostly 200T neg) and I can say it was worth the wait.


Hi John,
I think it would be more useful to see some of your own footage. Would it be possible for you to share that with us? I'm sure it would be very appreciated.

Thank you.


Now if we could just get Cinelicious to invest in the R&D for a Super 8 gate for the Scanity we'd be all set!


Hi David,
I'm sorry for my lack of knowledge, what do R&D mean?

Thank you.


The reason we did not do that to our Spirit at Cinelicious is because we're already thinking beyond HD and wouldn't want to invest a ton of money in an HD only machine for Super 8mm / Reg 8mm because we want higher than HD resolution, and we realize we need more dynamic range than a Spirit sensor can provide.

A Super 8mm gate for the Scanity would be awesome but is not going to happen as that is not DFT's focus. However we are looking at some different, very exciting 2K and higher resolution small format scanners and are currently in testing an QC phase. When it comes to Super 8mm and Regular 8mm a few things are true...


Hi paul,
Wanting higher resolution than HD is the way to go for Super 8 when one wants professional results out of this small and lovely film format. What is the scanner you guys use for your current Super 8 to 2K transfers?

I'm sorry again for my lack of knowledge but what does DFT means?

Thank you.
  • 0

#11 Matt Stevens

Matt Stevens
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 702 posts
  • Other

Posted 25 December 2012 - 09:18 PM

R&D = research and development
  • 0

#12 David Cunningham

David Cunningham
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1049 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 25 December 2012 - 10:03 PM

R&D = research and development


Thanks Matt
  • 0

#13 Will Montgomery

Will Montgomery
  • Sustaining Members
  • 2030 posts
  • Producer
  • Dallas, TX

Posted 27 December 2012 - 11:55 AM

However we are looking at some different, very exciting 2K and higher resolution small format scanners and are currently in testing an QC phase.

For this to reach it's potential you'd need some extremely well shot Super 8, with a really great lens. Like my Beaulieu 4008 Jubilee with Angenieux f1.2 6-80. Let me know if you'd like some beta testers! :D
  • 0

#14 David Cunningham

David Cunningham
  • Basic Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1049 posts
  • Cinematographer

Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:51 PM

Good conversation here. Thanks John (or Jerry or Doug) for starting it. I applaud Spectra's hard work and all the money they spent creating a new gate for a Spirit Classic. I sincerely hope the machine holds up long enough for them to get their money back on the gate R&D. The reason we did not do that to our Spirit at Cinelicious is because we're already thinking beyond HD and wouldn't want to invest a ton of money in an HD only machine for Super 8mm / Reg 8mm because we want higher than HD resolution, and we realize we need more dynamic range than a Spirit sensor can provide. Also the Spirit (new gate or not) will never be a perfect machine for the tight tolerances of small gauge film and any company using one will struggle with "watering" in the image and overall image stability. A Super 8mm gate for the Scanity would be awesome but is not going to happen as that is not DFT's focus. However we are looking at some different, very exciting 2K and higher resolution small format scanners and are currently in testing an QC phase. When it comes to Super 8mm and Regular 8mm a few things are true...
1) HD is not enough resolution. Maybe for Tri-X, 500T or old Ektachrome but for old Kodachrome, Vision 3 200T or especially the new Vision 3 50D we need at least 2K resolution horizontally across the top of picture area. And since HD is 16x9 and not a 4x3 format like Super/Reg 8mm film negative it sucks to have to make a choice of either going pillar box and wasting data on black bars (and decreasing resolution) or punching in to 16x9 and getting more resolution but cutting off negative information.
2) We need more dynamic range. Reversal stocks are very very high density and require a scanner that is very high dynamic range in order to properly scan all the information on the negative...or more accurately "positive".
3) We need more stability. There have been huge improvements made in optical pin registration which can achieve perf-ect stability even on small guage film.

Any new Small Guage film scanner we'll invest in at Cinelicious will have all 3 of these capabilities.

Keep an eye out for an announcement in 2013.

Best,

Paul



I am very anxious to see what comes out of Cinelicious for Super 8.

As happy as I was with the Spectra Spirit scan, I do have to say that the "registration" was a bit unstable. The images was definitely a bit more jittery than my camera normally looks. I thought that right away.
  • 0


Rig Wheels Passport

The Slider

Metropolis Post

CineLab

Tai Audio

Opal

Wooden Camera

Aerial Filmworks

Broadcast Solutions Inc

rebotnix Technologies

Abel Cine

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

FJS International, LLC

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

Paralinx LLC

Visual Products

Glidecam

CineTape

Willys Widgets

Technodolly

Ritter Battery

Willys Widgets

Opal

Paralinx LLC

Ritter Battery

Glidecam

Broadcast Solutions Inc

FJS International, LLC

Abel Cine

Tai Audio

Visual Products

rebotnix Technologies

The Slider

CineTape

Metropolis Post

Technodolly

Rig Wheels Passport

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Gamma Ray Digital Inc

CineLab

Aerial Filmworks

Wooden Camera