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The Hobbit 50FPS


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#1 Mark McCann

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 07:51 PM

Hey All,

Now i've been reading up a bit on the production of the hobbit and to my understanding its being shot with Red at 50FPS, The production blogs make this very clear.

Im very confused on the why and how of this, Im wondering if someone can explain to me why their shooting 50FPS?

To my understanding you would only shoot 50FPS for slow mo sequences or if the delivery system its to be played at is 50i/p [unlikely in this case]

Why 50 FPS for this production? Its most likely going to be played at 24/25p in theatres and home systems.

Is there something i'm missing about the advantages of shooting 50FPS?

With thanks

Mark
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#2 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 08:36 PM

They are shooting at 48 fps for 48 fps digital projection. That would reduce the motion strobing that comes with shooting at 24 fps, which is more distracting in 3D due to ghosting. So the idea is to make a better 3D presentation. This is not a new idea, Douglas Trumbull spent years trying to get his 60 fps Showscan process implemented. The increased speed of shooting and projection makes the motion very smooth and grain (if shooting film) starts to disappear. Basically you are sampling motion at a higher rate.

The downside is that people complain that the results look more video-ish since traditionally a 60i camcorder sampled motion 60 times per second, just that the samples were stored as fields, not whole frames. The strobing of 24 fps film is one aspect of the film look that people have become comfortable with, not because it is "better" necessarily.
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#3 Nate Opgenorth

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 02:41 PM

I'm curious how this will turn out on the Blu-ray release...I'm assuming it will be 24p as with almost all movies on BD. The Blu-ray disc standard doesn't allow 48fps but I would be curious if they had maybe a 720p version at 60fps/50fps with some type of pulldown similar to how DVDs stored 24p in 29.97fps, probably not possible but just thinking out loud a bit. I'm curious to see this in theaters though.
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#4 George Ebersole

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 07:38 PM

They are shooting at 48 fps for 48 fps digital projection. That would reduce the motion strobing that comes with shooting at 24 fps, which is more distracting in 3D due to ghosting. So the idea is to make a better 3D presentation. This is not a new idea, Douglas Trumbull spent years trying to get his 60 fps Showscan process implemented. The increased speed of shooting and projection makes the motion very smooth and grain (if shooting film) starts to disappear. Basically you are sampling motion at a higher rate.

The downside is that people complain that the results look more video-ish since traditionally a 60i camcorder sampled motion 60 times per second, just that the samples were stored as fields, not whole frames. The strobing of 24 fps film is one aspect of the film look that people have become comfortable with, not because it is "better" necessarily.

I always understood that everything was shot at 24 or 25fps, but projected back at 48 to cut down on strobing. I don't really know, but I'm curious as to what theatres actually do when they project films.
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#5 David Mullen ASC

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 08:25 PM

I always understood that everything was shot at 24 or 25fps, but projected back at 48 to cut down on strobing. I don't really know, but I'm curious as to what theatres actually do when they project films.


Movies are shot at 24 fps but projected with a double-bladed shutter in a film projector to reduce flicker by flashing each frame twice, not to reduce strobing (digital projectors just use a faster than 24 Hz refresh rate to reduce flicker).

Motion strobing is inherent to 24 fps photography due to the low sampling rate of motion. Flashing each frame more often isn't going to reduce that, it isn't going to add motion information that was never captured.
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#6 Chris Millar

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Posted 23 September 2012 - 09:01 PM

Why this can become a confused (and even at times contentious) discussion is that physical - as in mechanical/electrical/concrete processes - and psychophysical - integration time/fixations/off axis effects and so on - and the fluffy stuff that results from that get all mixed up.

The discussion of 48fps and the technicalities of that kind of acquisition are for the most part easy to discern but what remains to be seen (literally) are the results, ...and following from that the potential evolution of the format - i.e. do 'we' like it or not Posted Image
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#7 George Ebersole

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Posted 24 September 2012 - 12:57 AM

Movies are shot at 24 fps but projected with a double-bladed shutter in a film projector to reduce flicker by flashing each frame twice, not to reduce strobing (digital projectors just use a faster than 24 Hz refresh rate to reduce flicker).

Motion strobing is inherent to 24 fps photography due to the low sampling rate of motion. Flashing each frame more often isn't going to reduce that, it isn't going to add motion information that was never captured.

That's right, thanks for clarifying that. That's basic stuff, but it's something I keep forgetting.
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